DefCon has chronicled Ravi Zacharias’ downfall beginning with his first public compromise when he accepted an invitation to speak at the LDS temple in Salt Lake City but failed to make any distinction between the true Jesus Christ of the Bible and the demonically inspired false Christ of Mormonism. See Ravi Zacharias fails to preach the Gospel to the Mormons.
We then examined his further compromise in Ravi’s Descent where he accepted the condition to not pray in Jesus’ name at the National Day of Prayer coordinated by NDP chairwoman Shirley Dobson, wife of James Dobson of Focus on the Family which recently promoted the cult of Mormonism. Beginning to see the big picture yet?
Then we examined Ravi’s Crash and Burn as he not only accepted an invitation to speak at rank heretic Robert Schuller’s New Age ReThink conference, but that Ravi Zacharias also spoke favorably of Roman Catholic mystic Henri Nouwen, calling him “one of the greatest saints in recent memory.”
Now Slice of Laodicea and Apprising Ministries are reporting that not only will Ravi Zacharias not apologize or even back away from his endorsement of Henri Nouwen, but his ministry is defending his position. You can read the following letter from Ravi Zacharias Ministries in defense of Ravi’s endorsement of Nouwen by clicking here (PDF).
One of the most shocking parts of this letter written by Margaret Manning was her justification of Ravi’s compromise via the following statement:
“ . . . if it weren’t for the Catholic church you and I would not be here–nor would Christianity.”
Ravi Zacharias has become one of a long line of “public figure” Christians to compromise a little here and a little there until full blown apostasy is reached. What next Ravi, what next?
“Today I personally believe that while Jesus came to open the door to God’s house, all human beings can walk through that door, whether they know about Jesus or not. Today I see it as my call to help every person claim his or her own way to God.”
Roman Catholic mystic Henri Nouwen
Sabbatical Journey
Page 51, 1998 Hardcover Edition
Christ Alone Wyoming 
Say it ain’t so. How our Father’s heart must break. Heaven help us all…
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About two years ago my search for truth was coming to its end. Unbeknownst to me, I was within 6 months of true repentance, and calling on the Lord Jesus Christ to be my Saviour. Salvation was near at hand! During those vital and delicate months, I had come across RZIM online, and began taking in one “Let My People Think” after another. The Lord Jesus used Ravi in a mighty way, and my agnostic front was finally cracked. Ravi’s ministry was like a battering ram on those old iron doors that had held up against God for as long as I could remember. Then, the knowledge of the Truth of God’s Word that began flooding in, praise God! I’d have to say that of all the messengers that came flooding my way when I began to seek the Lord, Ravi was most prominent. Thereafter, it would be the man who is the pastor of our Church to this day…
I have to pray for this dear saint today. I am saddened by this worldly pragmatism that has seeped into the cracks that must have been hidden near the bottom of Ravi’s foundation. I pray for his repentance. His turning away from all of this ungodly compromising.
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Oh my… I had no idea.
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This is indeed a sad time!
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Thanks for posting this. It seems like every ministry that grows large ends up having its loins not girded up, and blowing every which way with the ever changing winds of false doctrine.
It is so sad to see what seem to be very solid Christians drifting off into apostasy due to an unhealthy attraction for emotionalism or some emotional therapeutic ‘fix’ that makes them FEEL more holy, while despising the true power of God unto salvation (and also unto sanctification!), the plain old offensive Gospel, the plain old written Word of God, rightly handled.
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I love Ravi and am praying for him. Hope he opens his eyes…
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I asked my ten year old daughter to listen to the quote below by Nouwen, and see what she thought. I got to “whether they know Jesus or not” and she said, “uhhhh, nope.” She didn’t let me finish reading it. She said she heard the part about all human beings and started to think, “huh, what?”
She also just said, “a lot of religions come from something they read in the Bible but they twist it somehow.” True, sad but true.
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My eight year old son said “Jesus said, ‘I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one comes to the Father except through me.’”
That says it all.
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The saddest part of this all is how Zacharias is such an “Evangelical Untouchable” that people won’t even investigate this for themselves. They simply join the chorus of “Ken-bashers” with their bogus cry of my taking this out of context.
But the doumentation is there and there’s no way around it; Ravi’s defending an apostate humanist who’s in Hell. Nouwen went to Hell because he rejected the genuine Gospel of Jesus Christ, and worse, he shut the door of the Kingdom of Heaven in men’s faces.
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Are his remarks incorrect? Yes, it would appear so. I haven’t researched it fully myself, but it would seem that if he made the remarks attributed to him, they would be incorrect. I’d have to look at the context, the particular questions, etc…
That being said, if everything that has been posted above is true, let’s not be like those who kick their wounded when they’re down, for others to see how we can so easily turn. If this is indeed true, we need to sincerely PRAY for RZ, and be willing to approach him in love, and with a genuine concern, especially given the tremendous reach he has in the Christian community. I don’t know how best to do that, perhaps a letter or a call, but I don’t know what he personally hears or responds to. I’m not saying anyone here has done anything inappropriate, just reminding us that our focus needs to be on helping him, rather than ridiculing his choices.
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Dear Brad:
Thank you for your response.
You are correct in Christians not abandoning each other. However, there comes a time when we are to separate ourselves from heretics, false teachers, wolves, and others who would drag us into compromise and shipwreck our faith. This is done for the sake and purity of the Gospel (and the preservation of our souls). This does not mean that we can’t pray for them, but we need to be separate from them, otherwise we risk lending credibility to them in the eyes of the world.
A letter was sent to RZM and RZM’s response was what it available for you to read on the link above (PDF) in the original post. Or just click here.
RZM is defending RZ’s endorsement of a Roman Catholic mystic. And there has been no known apology or change of heart expressed by RZM regarding his mixing light with darkness at the LDS temple and his refusal to pray in Jesus’ name at the NDP.
It is a sad time to see so many high profile Christians compromise and turn form the faith in many forms, but this is not to be unexpected. The Bible warned us this would happen.
Sincerely,
– The Pilgrim
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At this time I’m not at liberty to discuss it further but RZIM has again defended these statements and show zero indication they will change their position.
Instead, what I see is more evading the actual issue of definded a Roman Catholic mystic as a great saint and more equivocation concerning what Contemplative/Centering Prayer is.
The point being, RZIM is instructing e.g. me that I am in error and considers their opinion as expressed in that PDF letter, as well as what I’ve subsequently seen, correct.
Can we please stop the “if everything that has been posted above is true”? There’s an actual pdf copy at Slice of Laodicea stating EXACTLY the same thing as I quote in my articles.
“The discernment ministries take everything out of context” whine has grown very old.
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And I might add, Ken, that those who think RZ’s endorsement of the Roman Catholic mystic Henri Nouwen was “taken out of context,” may want to view the video for themselves that you’ve supplied in this link.
Stay the course & never compromise,
– The Pilgrim
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I saw Ravi speak a very non offensive message in a church building in New Jersey last year. This “church” was your typical modern gospel “Jesus loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life” message. Once again he had a wonderful opportunity to preach the full gospel to many decieved people. Instead he chose not to.
Afterwards he hung around in the foyer as people queued to chat to him. I noticed he had 2 bodyguards nearby which made me wonder what on earth a man of God would need with bodyguards. I know Benny Hinn has them, but Does RC Sproul have them ?…John Macarthur ?..James White ?
It will be a sad day when Todd Freil is calling out Ravi Zacharias on wretched TV for his apostacy …But I honestly believe that is where all this is heading.
-dale
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Ken/Pilgrim,
I’m all about not compromising the faith. The reason I said “if the above is true”, is b/c I hadn’t taken the time (b/c I didn’t have it) to research it fully, before making a judgment. I would hope you would not fault me, or anyone, for being cautious about what they say before having fully investigated it for themselves.
That being said, please do still continue to pray for RZ. And do still continue to approach him, in love, to reconcile a brother. Just be careful the manner in which you do it. Make sure you’re not SO bent on separation, that you forget WHY.
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“Make sure you’re not SO bent on separation, that you forget WHY.”
One might also say: Make sure you’re not SO bent on inclusion and unity, that you forget WHY.
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Ken, brother, you’re missing the point. As a hothead myself, I know how easy it is. I’ve been reminded by a few people whom I greatly respect that it’s OK to be set in your beliefs, but it’s also absolutely crucial that we make sure we conduct ourselves in a manner that the Bible would have us.
I’m not bent on inclusion. Do you see me saying “we need to accept RZ, regardless of what he says, and just know that we all love God?” No, you don’t. I’m not saying it’s not OK to say that what he’s said and advocated is in error – it is. What I’m saying is be careful of the manner in which you separate yourself.
Given how dead set you seem on being sure of separation, it never hurts to be reminded that we also need to work on reconciling the brother, if at all possible, as well. Just remember that, Ken.
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I agree with Brad.
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Ummmm…..yeah.
Talk about a bunch of people so quick to jump on the hotbed of gossip.
One question: What’s Ravi’s response to all of this?
Get a grip, people, please.
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Dear MCToneDef:
Perhaps you may want to review the original post again and click on the PDF link which contains RZM’s official defense on behalf of RZ.
And if that’s not sufficient for you, you can hop on over to Apprising.org where Pastor Ken Silva has been delving into this matter much deeper.
It is a sad day when the sheep ignore the compromise (and even heresy) of their beloved leaders (also known as idolatry). You do no service to yourself, other Christians, the furtherance of the true Gospel, nor the person who is in error by excusing their erorr and attacking those who dare to address the issues.
Sincerely,
– The Pilgrim
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Again, Pilgrim, more harshness from you.
As I’ve said before, it’s OK to be separate, but be careful HOW you do it, for you may alienate other Christians in the process.
It could be that MCToneDef is just wanting to be sure of what you have said on here, before making a comment. Understandable, as we certainly wouldn’t want to say this happened if it didn’t. It could be that he (or she) didn’t check the links you had given in the original post. Yet, you assume that he (or she) is “excusing their error and attacking those who dare to address the issues”, when it seems that the person may just be being cautious before commenting, which is actually a pretty good idea.
I’ve seen a lot of what you’ve written, Pilgrim, on other blogs and on DefCon, and agree with most of it. But on this one, I really disagree with you. Not b/c I think you’re wrong about RZ, but b/c the methods you’re using, and the tone you’re taking, isn’t helpful in illustrating the problem, and is causing people to not listen to you as much, rather than really take heed and support what you’re saying. As I’ve said before, both you and Ken need to be careful of that.
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Ken also has to be careful of his “Ken-Bashers’ mentality. I’ve noticed that sometimes he lapses into a ‘everyone’s out to get me’ state of mind, which makes communication difficult.
If Ravi has indeed done this, he should repent. But I wonder if an exhortation(and prayer to change his heart) to repent would be better than what’s going on here.
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Joshua,
“I’ve noticed that sometimes he [Ken] lapses into a ‘everyone’s out to get me’ state of mind, which makes communication difficult.”
Little judmental wouldn’t you say? How do you know this is how I feel? Answer: You don’t. Particularly because I don’t feel that way at all as anyone who actually knows me is aware of.
“If Ravi has indeed done this?” So now we’re making this up? Before pontificating on what I ought to do, did you bother to check out the source links for yourself?
Friend, there’s a video of Ravi calling Henri Nouwen, an apostate (at best) universalist Roman Catholic mystic, “One of the greatest saints in recent memory.” I’m guessing the video doesn’t lie, even if you wish it did.
“But I wonder if an exhortation(and prayer to change his heart) to repent would be better than what’s going on here.”
1) How do you know what any of us are praying? Oops, again, you don’t. 2) the Bible commands us to also correct and rebuke (see-2 Timothy 4:2) in addition to praying. And 3) there is also attempted dialogue behind the scene.
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Pilgrim,
I can’t see at all where you were harsh. In fact, it looked like sound, friendly advice not to be so taken with these “stars” of evangelicalism as to be uncritically accepting everything they do and say.
Ravi is flat out wrong in this and his RZIM associate writer Manning still is stanchly defending him. A friend of mine is also in dialogue with them but the feeling we both get is RZIM is just not teachable concerning this Contemplative attack on Sola Scriptura.
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“Little judmental wouldn’t you say?”
No more judgmental than you’ve been to certain people, lol.
“How do you know this is how I feel? Answer: You don’t.”
Your posts on different web-blogs prove otherwise.
“So now we’re making this up?”
No, but I have a hard time trusting you due to the nature of the conflicts you’ve gotten into.
“Before pontificating on what I ought to do”
This is another reason why I think you have a “everyone’s out to get me mentality. I did not say YOU have to do this, i was making a plea to ALL involved in this dispute, not just YOU.
“I’m guessing the video doesn’t lie, even if you wish it did.”
Lol, now who’s being judgemental? I did not say we shouldn’t pray for change on Ravi’s part, nor blindly accept everything he says, nor place him above reproach. I simply don’t see this talk behind his back as being very effective.
“1) How do you know what any of us are praying? Oops, again, you don’t.”
I have not seen you nor the Pilgrim give any exhortation to do so.
“2) the Bible commands us to also correct and rebuke (see-2 Timothy 4:2) in addition to praying.”
I am not disputing this. But commenting on a blog far removed from Ravi’s eyes about him being a potential apostate is not correcting, it’s borderline slander.
“And 3) there is also attempted dialogue behind the scene.”
Good. I’m glad. I hope that Ravi will repent.
God bless.
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Dear Brad,
You said, “Again, Pilgrim, more harshness from you.”
I’m not really sure where this “harshness” you speak of is. I suppose it’s just perspective depending on who you’re trying to defend.
However, I do find it actually rather ironic that you accuse me of being harsh but yet say nothing (and even defend MCToneDef) who said such things as:
“Talk about a bunch of people so quick to jump on the hotbed of gossip;” and “Get a grip, people, please.”
There’s a nice amount of vitriol in his comment that you failed to address but since you’ve already taken the side that you’re going to volley from, I understand where your loyalty must lie from here on out (regardless of what transpires).
I acknowledge your attempts at being “neutral” but your comments have become anything but.
Dear Joshua:
I have been more than patient over the weeks (months?) that you’ve been leaving comments on DefCon. With few exceptions your comments have been always been critical of DefCon. As a guest on this blog (or in our house) you are always free to leave the same way you came in.
Now, I am NOT TRYING TO BE HARSH (so don’t even go there, Brad). What I AM SAYING is that just as if something you didn’t like came across your TV screen you have the ability to change the channel, you also have the ability to stop visiting DefCon whom you seem to have such a problem with.
In our Rules of Engagement, number three is specific about blog trolls; we don’t need them.
Dear Ken Silva:
It’s a waste of time to dispute this with those who refuse to use discernment, and who refuse to accept the facts. They have successfully moved the discussion away from Ravi’s errors to us. How clever and how commonplace.
Ravi’s been going down this road since at least 2004 and his errors have been well documented and yet all these individuals can say is, “don’t judge.” If they have reviewed the facts in this matter and they’re still finding only fault in us, then I suppose that reveals more about them than any long, drawn-out debate in this comments section can do.
This philosophy of neutrality (in spite of the facts) is the same mindset that allowed Joseph Smith, Charles T. Russell, Mary Baker Eddy, and Ellen G. White to flourish. I can only imagine Christians trying to oppose what these heretics were doing being met with the “don’t judge” and “you better be praying for them” and “how do you know what they really think” mantras that are so rampant today.
Instead of taking a stand between right and wrong; black and white; they seek to remain in the misty clouds of the gray; an area that God does not give us permission to remain in.
– The Pilgrim
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“With few exceptions your comments have been always been critical of DefCon.”
This is incorrect. My only other ‘critical’ posts were on The attacking of Paul Washer and Mark Driscoll and against Desert Pastor’s wife exaggerations. I have not been critical of the service you and your team provide, and I have agreed with you on other posts.
“In our Rules of Engagement, number three is specific about blog trolls; we don’t need them.”
If agreeing with Brad and disagreeing with Ken counts as trolling, so be it….
“It’s a waste of time to dispute this with those who refuse to use discernment, and who refuse to accept the facts. They have successfully moved the discussion away from Ravi’s errors to us. How clever and how commonplace.”
And now you’ve failed to notice that neither Brad nor I have accepted, embraced, approved of, nor exalted Ravi or his claims, you have also failed to show how this frequent posting behind his back counts as ‘correction’. Instead, you label those that disagree with you as not having discernment….
“If they have reviewed the facts in this matter and they’re still finding only fault in us,”
I haven’t. I Think Ravi was wrong, but that doesn’t make your method’s here right. You’re having the same attitude as Ken here….
Your site is extremely helpful in dealing with many of the false doctrines that have invaded the Church, but both DefCon, Slice, and Apprising are quick to accuse those who want reconciliation as idolizing those who are in error. No wonder there’s no dialogue….
God Bless.
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“… choose you this day whom ye will serve…”
-Joshua 24:15
“…How long halt ye between two opinions..?”
-I Kings 18:21
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Pilgrim,
“It’s a waste of time to dispute this with those who refuse to use discernment, and who refuse to accept the facts. They have successfully moved the discussion away from Ravi’s errors to us. How clever and how commonplace.”
LOL; we’ve been down that road a few times, eh. 8^)
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Joshua, Brad, MCToneDef, et al:
When I speak of “you all” in this comment please understand that I mean those who tend to disagree with everything we do, (or at least disagree more often than they ever agree). I am speaking in general as I am referring to the overall experience of operating a blog that deals in the realm of discernment.
I believe I also speak for Ken when I say that we do not enjoy arguing or fighting amongst ourselves. We do not look forward to battles in the comments sections with those who take issue with everything we say (if it’s not you guys on the Ravi issue it’s someone else on an entirely separate issue).
Sometimes I wish the patience and tolerance that our detractors display for the likes of Ravi Zacharias, Rick Warren, Mark Driscoll, etc. was also extended to us. Sadly this is not the case. When we present the public actions, words, and teachings of these men, we often times get arrows from all directions. The arrows that go the deepest, however, are the ones from those who claim to be from our own camp.
In this particular case regarding RZ, the facts have been laid out. The sources have been linked. There’s nothing in this matter that has been left to conjecture. Where my commentary has lacked, Ken’s has more than made up for that in his detailed posts (don’t know where he finds the time).
So the real question is: “What”s the problem?” Apparently you are kind of agreeing with us, but disagreeing that we haven’t made this information available in a fashion that you all prefer.
Allow me to draw you attention to the seriousness of this matter. Those who lead others astray are very, very dangerous. We are warned time and time again to watch out for them. We are to vehemently oppose any and all who would shipwreck the faith of another. In Ravi’s case, what does he need to do before you guys expend as much energy dealing with his heresy as you do with us not presenting it in the fashion that you think we should?
Would Ravi coming out and claiming he no longer believes in Sola Fide be the final straw?
He has essentially done that by endorsing Roman Catholic mystic Henri Nouwen. Nouwen was not a proponent of the doctrine of Sola Fide so by Ravi calling him “one of the greatest saints in recent memory,” it doesn’t leave much wiggle room for Ravi (nor you) because he has just declared that faith in Christ alone is not the only way to salvation; “Look, Nouwen did it!”
See how serious this is? Even a little leaven leavens the whole lump.
Then look at the LDS situation from back in 2004. Mormons were praising his appearance. Why? Because he went into the very bowels of the cult of Mormonism and left them feeling like everything was ok and that they’re serving the same Jesus Christ as we. Can you even for a moment imagine the Apostle Paul going in there and not uncompromisingly proclaiming the true Christ of the Scriptures?
As for not making a public pronouncement to pray for Ravi, I presumed this was a foregone conclusion. I thought it was not something that we have to say with every single post.
And finally, a quilting blog will deal with quilts as an NFL blog will deal with football. On DefCon we deal with defending the faith from those who would subvert it.
Unfortunately Watchmen are never popular. They are attacked, ridiculed, and hounded by those outside the city walls wishing to storm the city as well as by those within the city walls whom they are diligently trying to warn and protect.
Sincerely,
– The Pilgrim
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“As for not making a public pronouncement to pray for Ravi, I presumed this was a foregone conclusion.”
And that’s one of the issues I have with DefCon.
Your exposes are well written and informative, you are all charitable men and women, and you have earnestfully defended truth. All of this, has been an encouragement and a conviction to me.
However, too often DefCon will simply post a popular leaders failings(“The Smoldering Ash-Heap” title is but one example) While the expose may be needed, hardly any EMPHASIS on prayer is put forth.
Yes, the apostle Paul handed over people to Satan. However, it was done so that they would repent. That’s what I wish there was more of, not borderline slander and defensive tactics.
Anyway, I’m sorry my stances have been annoying or irritating. I ask your forgiveness.
God bless.
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No prob Joshua.
And by the way, the title of this post is a continued play on words.
If you notice the previous posts:
Ravi’s Descent and Ravi’s Crash and Burn along with this latest post title The Smoldering Ash Heap . . . are all in reference (at least it was in my mind) to a description of an airplane crashing to the earth.
I knew based on the first couple compromises that it was only a matter of time before the plane would crash and burn; leaving only a heaping pile of ashes.
It is usually the inevitable result because compromise always takes a man where he never intended to go.
Sincerely,
– The Pilgrim
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Ken/Pilgrim,
You still don’t seem to get exactly what it is I’m saying. For the record (and I’ve stated this already, but will do so again, b/c evidently it must not have been clear), it does appear that RZ made the statements, and I agree with you that they are not correct. We’re not in debate about that. Do I think his statement(s) mean he has lost salvation, or rather never had it? No, I don’t, but I haven’t delved into the matter much more than this cursory reading, nor am I God.
What I have attempted to address is the method in which you’ve addressed it. Again, I’ve said this before, but evidently not clearly.
Do I believe that what he said should be pointed out as erroneous? Yes, I do – and you’ve done that.
What’s the next step? To attempt to reconcile the brother. Evidently, from what you say (and again, I haven’t had time to check, so I take you at your word), this has also been at least attempted, by trying to get his comments to this situation, and has not been productive so far, as RZ has not backed down from what he said.
OK, so now we’ve tried, to no avail (yet), so now what do we do. Here’s where we might differ. The issue has been pointed out, and RZ has been contacted. Let’s now stop and pray for him. Let’s consider how we approach him. Let’s consider that in the end, God’s will will be done regardless, and maybe it’s not up to US to change RZ’s mind, but instead it’s up to us to pray that his mind be changed SOMEHOW!
You see, I agree with you that errors need to be pointed out. I have struggled often with being TOO harsh, TOO critical of others. Yes, I had the right motive, which was to point out errors b/c we just can’t let those errors go unnoticed, and we don’t want anyone mislead. Just like you. However, what I’ve found is that often becomes more about me, than about the error. I had to be right – I had to point it out.
I don’t know you, so I can’t speak to your motives, or whether this might be a problem for you. I can only speak from experience and say that right things can often be done with poor methods, and thus not become as effectual as they could be.
Yes, I think RZ is wrong. Yes, I think we should point it out, in love, to him. No, I don’t think we should compromise Scripture, ever. I hope that’s clear.
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Let’s see, Jesus knocked over the tables of the money changers, called the Pharisees white washed tombs, and a brood of vipers. Maybe He should have been more careful how He pointed out their error, & not been so ‘harsh’. Probably should have had a prayer meeting about them right then and there for a change of heart, huh ?
And what about that Apostle Paul, he named names, & called a spade a spade. Could all you guys wanting reconciliation try contacting Ravi yourself, and see how far you get? He’s saying these things in public, and he’s being rebuked in public. Don’t refer to this as gossip, or talking behind his back, that’s just so childish.
Ravi is a grown man who knows exactly what he said and is certainly intelligent enough to come to a correct conclusion if he so desires. It is time for those who complain about harshness to get a grip, not the other way around. With all the baloney out there today seeing respondents chastise and complain about the ‘manner’ of pointing out the rot was just over the edge. When the house is on fire you put it out, not complain that everything is getting wet.
Anne
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Let’s see, Jesus knocked over the tables of the money changers, called the Pharisees white washed tombs, and a brood of vipers. Maybe He should have been more careful how He pointed out their error, & not been so ‘harsh’. Probably should have had a prayer meeting about them right then and there for a change of heart, huh ?
Jesus had a “righteous anger”, something that very few of us could say we have, b/c we’re sinful people, and Jesus never sinned. You’re missing the point, but I’ll get to it in a minute.
And what about that Apostle Paul, he named names, & called a spade a spade. Could all you guys wanting reconciliation try contacting Ravi yourself, and see how far you get? He’s saying these things in public, and he’s being rebuked in public. Don’t refer to this as gossip, or talking behind his back, that’s just so childish.
Anne, you may want to read the whole thread, to see exactly who is saying what. If you say you have, you may want to then be specific when you make assertions, as not all have done what you say (including myself). If you re-read, you’ll notice that I have been CLEAR – obviously, painstakingly, repeatedly CLEAR – that since RZ is wrong, there’s no issue with saying publicly that he’s wrong. I’ve not referred to it – EVER – as gossip or talking behind his back, so be careful when you make statements such as that. You need to be certain you can back them up with previous comments. From what has been written, RZ has been contacted, and has refused to retract his statements, and that’s really too bad, b/c they’re incorrect statements. The public has been made aware, and they should have. Now comes the last part, the hardest part – continuing to love RZ and pray for him, and continuing to earnestly seek a change for him. It’s easy to call someone out publicly – not so easy to lovingly try to show him his error. But both are necessary.
Ravi is a grown man who knows exactly what he said and is certainly intelligent enough to come to a correct conclusion if he so desires.
I’m not debating that, Anne – that’s correct.
It is time for those who complain about harshness to get a grip, not the other way around.
A “grip”? On what, Anne? Again, I’ve already said that a public “calling out” has happened, and was necessary. I’ve just said we need to take it a step further, and quit kicking the guy when he’s down, and seek to reconcile him. Do you disagree that we need to do that, Anne?
With all the baloney out there today seeing respondents chastise and complain about the ‘manner’ of pointing out the rot was just over the edge. When the house is on fire you put it out, not complain that everything is getting wet.
It’s not over the edge at all, it’s actually Biblical, Anne, although it’s often easy to overlook that part, but easy to do the public “calling out.” Look, I’ll be the first to call out the Osteens, Hinns, or Jakes of the world, b/c I think what they peddle is a muddled, incorrect view of God and His plan for us. But I’ll also pray that their hearts be changed. I don’t have a direct line to them or their ministries, but I do have a direct line to God, through Jesus Christ, just as you do.
When the house is on fire, you put it out, absolutely. Why? B/c you’re concerned about saving the house, not b/c you like to use the fire hose. And if the house should burn down despite your best efforts, if you truly loved the house, you seek to rebuild it, hopefully with the help of others.
Keep that in mind.
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These posts seemed to end some time ago, but I hope this will in some small way add to the discussion.
I think one of the biggest problems in the world today is not enough people are watching Star Trek, because everything worth knowing I learned from Star Trek!
No I am just kidding to make a point. I used to be a big Star Trek fan, and when the first motion picture came out I went to see it, and I was very disappointed. The probe in the story that had left earth years ago as voyager 6 came back to earth as a powerful mechanical being calling itself V’GER, and looking for its creator. V’GER could not believe that humans could have created it. One of the Enterprise crew came up with the brilliant statement “of course everything creates god in its own image” I thought at the time it was the most stupid statement ever made, and it ruined the movie for me.
As I grew up and rededicated my life to the Lord Jesus Christ, He spoke to me and showed me there was a truth to that statement “everything creates god in its own image” or translated “everyone”, and if you look you will see so many people do believe in God, and even believe in Jesus, but not unto salvation. So many people today have created their own belief about God, and look for a man whose teachings best fit their beliefs, and follow that man.
We have seen this since the fall of man, and it is still with us today. In Jesus’ time when he said ” John 6:53 (KJV)
Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. Many of his disciples could not handle this, so they left to find a way that suited their beliefs. I think as we draw closer to the last days we will see and exponential increase of man following man.
I have enjoyed listen to Ravi for years, but have been trouble by a number of biblical inconsistency in his messages, and I would like to ask him about the inconsistency and about the reference to this priest as well.
He has probably become so insulated by his organization that it was unlikely that he even saw your letter to him.
Mark 13:20-21 (KJV)
And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect’s sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days. [21] And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not:
If you are a Christian then Christ is in you the hope of glory, so study the word of God, and let no man deceive you!!
Just some rambling thoughts and I hope it adds something to the discussion
Regards, Bruce
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I am shocked to hear of my favorite Christian apologist and philosopher’s heretical statements made in public. I came across this news quite by accident while trying to find some materials from him to forward to a friend, who doesn’t believe that truth is absolute. However, since RZM has been a beacon of light until now, I shall not throw the baby out with the bathwater in this instance. The irony here is that Ravi speaks so eloquently in defence of the truth. I dare say that what we are seeing and hearing is a manifestation of the kind of power the enemy can have over a mere mortal ,doing God’s work, who is not 100% in submission to the Lord, in every way. Ravi needs us to pray for him and his family like never before!
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I still love him. I’ve learned so much from Ravi.
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Have I been the only one to notice that in all of Ravi’s Cult books that Catholicism is NEVER listed in the Table of Contents??? It is really no surprise to learn that he has sold out to Rome and is compromising about Mormonism! Some people’s comments on here says they still love this guy and that he is great….and i am like WHAT? He is a sell-out to himself and more than that a sell-out to Jesus…especially since he agreed with NOT praying in Jesus’ name at the NDP. I plan on exposing him even more now! You are either ALL in for Jesus or you are NOT, it is that simple!
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Pilgrim, Ken, great job. You guys are so thoughtful, patient, and articulate as you speak the truth in love. I always blow a fuse when I attempt to do what you guys are doing. I praise God for the character He’s developed in you.
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Ravi Zacharias will be a featured speaker at the Christian and Missionary Alliance’s National General Conference. The C&MA is a serial abuser of the brethren, hijacking and/or suing one local C&MA church after another!
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Pingback: Authors of Confusion Pt. 5 – Ravi Zacharias « slaveofjesuschristdotme
I read a recent interview with Ravi where he said that he regretted statements made about HN, and also some of things he had said about Malcolm Muggeridge. Sometimes we make statements about people based on what we know at the time, but find out that our opinion on them was wrong. This was Ravi’s experience with these particular figures.
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http://www.examiner.com/review/interview-with-dr-ravi-zacharias-on-his-latest-book-why-jesus
found this link…
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This article is not fully accurate or in context. I have been listening to Ravi for a while now and listened to the full talk he gave at the LDS church. If he is an apostate than we have much larger issues. We can all be called apostates because I bet half of the people on this forum have never done half of the preaching that he has in his over 35 years of ministry. Give me a break.
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I think David b is right. I dont think Ravi is the issue. Listen to yourselves. Truth is no one is above any one of us but it seems like some one you think that you know better. if Ravi is an apostate, there is really no hope left in this world. Sad but it is the arrogance and lack of humility shown in the place that makes Christianity what it is today. Love more and you will be closer to Christ.
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Timothy, the issue is not about Ravi as much as it is about what he says he believes. His open and fawning endorsements of those who believe contrary to the truth of Scripture make him a candidate for being under the microscopic light of truth. Fortunately, the hope of Christianity is NOT found in Ravi, therefore even if he went completely apostate, The Lord Jesus Christ will still build His Church. There are many who have once walked the path toward the heavenly kingdom and there are many who have become apostate. The true church moves on for it is NOT dependent either on a single teacher nor is it dependent on those who would willingly follow those false teachers.
Oh and the words of the song should ring loudly here –
“My hope is built on nothing less than Jesus’ blood and righteousness…ALL other ground is sinking sand!”
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I have heard Ravi openly OPPOSE Universalism in his podcasts, in Q&A’s and I have also read it in his articles. Unfortunately his admiration for HN has slightly undermined his position…but I am pretty sure if an undergraduate challenged him about the exclusivity of Christianity, he would have no problems defending it.
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One of the concerns you address seems to be Ravi’s failure to communicate the message you felt he should have given, rather than the substance of the message he gave.
Another concern you mention is he spoke in a place you didn’t like. Okay, I understand that, but again, what about the message he gave?
Some of your concerns may have merit, but I’m much more concerned with content than I am with location or that “he welcomes sinners and eats with them.”
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II Chronicles 19:2 “And Jehu the son of Hanani the seer went out to meet him, and said to king Jehoshaphat, Shouldest thou help the ungodly, and love them that hate the LORD? therefore is wrath upon thee from before the LORD.”
In the prior chapter, Jehoshaphat had told Ahab to inquire of the Lord (the true God). There was no problem with his message, but that he did not draw a distinction between himself and those who were doing evil.
By contrast, the prophet Micaiah, who brought a message in the very same location, received no condemnation from the Lord.
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Sorry to necro this old article, but where is the PDF of the letter from RZIM. It seems that the URL no longer exists.
Thanks
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why not tell him directly, that is what Jesus did wt His disciples.
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Don’t forget this one.
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ganajit, thank you for stopping by. First, Ravi has been addressed and his ministries. Second, RZIM choose not to respond, or if they do, they have sought to gloss over what has been done by Ravi in his preaching and teaching. Third, he has erred in a public fashion and this does not fit into the Matthew 18 scenario of church discipline. I hope that clarifies where we stand.
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Yes, thanks for sharing that video clip. When a person begins to go down the road of accepting all faiths as being acceptable before God, it is easy to see why Ravi would claim that Joyce Meyer, who is a purveyor of great heresy, would be considered as a great Bible teacher!
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This is very sad…. when one goes the road of popularity, he will soon go the way of heresy in order to please those men and women with itching ears! It is sad for this man and many others who preach ‘another gospel’… our task it to pray for them that the Lord will show mercy to them and turn them from error. Brethren we also must be careful lest we fall – we are no better… only kept by the grace of God.
Thanks for sharing all these
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Brothers in Christ, it deeply saddens me to see all of this hatred towards a man who loves the Lord. This report makes me very sad to see that the love of Christ is not what governs His people. We must not judge the world but love the world. If you are angry at Ravi for not condemning the world, why is it that you feel that anger? Do you not see that Ravi loves the Lord and rests upon Him in his ministry? We cannot determine who will accept the Lord Jesus, nor HOW. But it is clearly not by calling men of the world “rank heretics.” Jesus tells us to be in the world but not of the world. This means that we are to be present with people who do not know Jesus. We are to be invested in them, but in investments where there is no risk because we know that we do not belong to this world. I think that Ravi has simply respected the people of the world, and treated them as his neighbors with love. Do you not know that His kindness is meant to lead us to repentance? (Romans 2:4)
I urge you brothers not to tear down a ministry that is working with the love of Jesus. The enemy is already at work trying to divide us. Let us rather admonish each other in love, but not openly and publicly when we don’t have all of the facts. Listen to the Spirit of the Lord in your hearts. Be honest and sincere, and see if this condemning of Ravi and his ministry is from the Lord or a false self righteousness. Brothers, now more than ever the body of Christ must be united. Stop judging, and ask the Lord for wisdom through His perfect Love and Grace!
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I have a very honest and sincere question. The nature of every reply will definitely weigh in on my conclusion, so please feel free to answer my question. I ask that (every one of) you do two things before submitting your response(s). 1) Say a prayer to GOD asking for HIS help in your response. 2)Please engage your brain before your mouth, or in this case, your fingers. Simply put, read your reply and make any/the necessary adjustments before you click: Post Comment. My QUESTION: Do you really believe an infinitely loving and infinitely merciful GOD would condemn to hell a person who lived a good life having done (unbeknownst to them), what Jesus instructed…particularly the following, “…You shall love your neighbor as yourself…” (Mark 13-31) and “…love one another. As I have loved you, so you also should love one another.” (John 13:34), are ALL Non-Christian people, who through no fault of their own, have no knowledge of GOD, the FATHER, the SON and the HOLY SPIRIT condemned to hell?
If anyone would like me to further explain any part of my question please post a comment…
Some of the many thoughts going through my mind…be wary of self righteousness, there are some of the Jewish faith to whom being “chosen” means they are in an EXCLUSIVE club and that GOD could careless about anyone else. Many of us who consider ourselves to be Christians (past, present and future), are guilty of un-Christianly behavior, lucky for us Jesus took the hit to buy our salvation and to be made worthy we need only repent and spread the “GOOD NEWS.” ANYTHING and EVERYTHING that brings you to GOD and GOD to you, is a good thing (even something that I consider to be a little crazy and very extreme like the snake handling practices of some Pentecostal Churches, I only ask that if it must be done in my presence, “Please, PLEASE, PLEASE! Do it about ten feet away from me.”).
May GOD bless ALL of us who are seeking the truth,
GODSPEED,
Peace, OUT.
aas
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Rev. 2 Jesus praised the Ephesians because they HATED false teachings which Jesus himself also HATES. Yes Jesus HATES false teaching. We cannot be a people after Gods own heart unless we imitate Him in all His ways.
Those quick to condemn the apologists and discerners are in reality resisting the Christ of bible they claim to love.
R. Z.’s words were documented. he was confronted and given a chance to repent. he refused to repent. he doubled down instead.
The sin of pride is alive and well across the board of Christian leadership. Pastors and elders will toss you out for daring to question them or for holding them to sound teaching. I have contacted ministries such as RBC who thinking more highly of themselves than they ought, defended their promotion of Spiritual Formation.
their authority has gone to heads. They like several ministries and local pastors are drunk with power and position and fame and yes even fortune.
I believe that the great delusion is being sent forth. Every Christian had better come to grips to the coming of and the escalation of attacks against all you will not leave the narrow path of sola scriptura. The naysayers comments in this opinion section prove my point. You had better repent and get on board with the real Jesus who hates and loves.
have a nice day.
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There does not appear to be a single prominent teacher in the world today who does not embrace heresy. Even John MacArthur teaches ‘salvation by works’ in his Lordship Salvation teaching. It’s best to just read the Bible in context and accept it at face value, that it means what it says!
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Yes. Salvation is not by character, but by the blood of Jesus. No works required, just faith (and even that is a gift.)
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If you research the Bible and look for “false” prophets, witnesses, etc. you will find there is MORE THAN eight TYPEWRITTEN PAGES warning you about them. You were told this so you would see what his fruits are. Then read 2Ti 4:3 A time will come when people will not listen to accurate teachings. Instead, they will follow their own desires and surround themselves with teachers who tell them what they want to hear. (GW) I used the Gods word edition to show you better the meaning of the verse.
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Tragically,n the current living, there are more false teachers(2 Tim 4:3-4),once bought by blood of Jesus(2 Pet 2:1)than true teachers of Gods Word. The sheer lack of discernment by those ‘born again’ by the Spirit of God is more than frightening. The warnings not 2 b deceived&fall away from faith by Jesus(Mat 24:4-5,10),by the HolySpirit(1Tim 4:1),by Paul(2Thes 2:3-4),by Peter(2Pet 2:1)&by John(1John 3:7);are for believers.The unsaved can’t depart from faith they never had.. Beware; watch&pray! MIKE§
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Wow… very lengthy comment here. I was lead here because, I am in fact a bit curious about this famous apologist Ravi Zacharias. I first heard about him when a churchmate of mine recommended his books to me and also his website. They said that he’s good especially in dealing with atheists.
I have heard and saw his videos in YouTube. But what I have noticed is that he doesn’t answer in a straightforward manner, like when a video that says is the Catholic church a cult. It’s very easy to answer you just say yes or no.. I assume that that is his style of answering, you ask a question and you don’t answer in a direct manner.
He just had a talk in my country and he’s really praised by almost all of the Christians here. Well one’s things for sure. He sure is an educated man. But if he twists and he doesn’t preach the true gospel, or if he for the ‘universalism’ one religion, ‘peace’ thing then it’s really alarming.
A lot of popular preachers today… the bible says beware of false prophets.
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I sure wish Ravi Zacharias was as accurate and correct about the one, true, and absolute way to think about Christianity. May King James (pbuh) be praised for the most excellent and inerrant translation of Scripture. Only a great fool would assume older documents to me more accurate. Oh the shame of heresy for Ravi not to be perfect as our Lord and Savior demanded.
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I agree 100% about your discernment concerning Ravi Zacharias and his ministry. However, what I believe you forgot to address is the growing issue of Christians supporting the “Psychology” or “Psycho-theraputic practice” movement. I have heard Ravi Zacharias spoke about his support (during one of his radio broadcast on “Let My People Think” podcast) for the Psychology movement. Sadly, due to the pseudo ideas, practices, therapies, techniques conceptualized by Sigmund Freud, Carl Gustav Hung, Alfred Adler, Abraham Maslow, etc… A Christian who adheres to God and Biblical teaching should discern and rebuke this Satanic worldview that Ravi Zacharias is embracing! Ravi also supports this whole Christian Psychology movement, which, is far a farce towards the doctrine of Christianity! Consider what was said on Colossians 2:8 – Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
This is exactly what Ravi is disregarding by supporting Psychology and the “Focus on the Family” ministries! As the poet William Blane says:
But who would shun the noonday light
To grope ‘mid shadows dim?
And who would leave the Fountain Head
To drink the muddy stream,
Where men have mixed what God bath said
With every dreamer’s dream?
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One cannot condemn judgmental statements without being judgmental, thus an act of self refutation and hypocrisy.
Jesus condemned self righteous judgment but commanded righteous judgment.
Take heed, if even Ravi can be lured into error through spiritual formation and then into unbiblical pseudo-ecumenicalism then on to missional social gospel then the Great DELUSION has been sent.
I just watched a current RZIM broadcast where Ravi thanked a previous speaker for his favorable teaching and how-to instruction concerning spiritual formation.
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Learn the lesson of 1 Kings 13. God sent a prophet to King Jeroboam with a specific prophecy with very specific instructions. This prophet obeyed God. . Gods words came to pass precisely as was spoken by this true prophet.
After the wicked King was humbled this true prophet was tempted by the wicked King to stay and sup with him but the true prophet refused as God had specifically commanded him that he should not drink water nor eat bread or return the same way. He would not listen to this King.
Now in Bethel dwelt an old prophet. The scriptures say nothing beyond this as to his character. The old prophet offers the same exact temptation as the king. Even worse he knew what God had commanded. Even worse than the king he lied and worse than that he spoke falsely in the Lords name. The prophet of God believed the lying words of the old prophet and acted contrary to God’s clear and certain word.
Rather than slaying the old prophet for lying and deceiving and causing this prophet to sin, God slew the good prophet for believing the lie for exalting the old prophets lie above what the clear and certain word of God was.
In logic we have the classic error of the genetic fallacy. he considered the source of the temptation rather than the temptation itself.
God had in effect given this prophet a closed Cannon. Even though he had a closed Cannon straight from God he heeded the lying tongue of the old prophet who had a new teaching a new word from the Lord contrary to the closed cannon.
Think not that God will judge the false teacher more harshly than those who allow themselves to be deceived.
Knowing all this people still attack the watchmen on the wall for sounding the alarm rather than attacking the false teacher. They should realize that they are sinning against God and He will bring them to account.
Mark, thank you for standing on the wall.
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Interesting read, I have listened much to Ravi and have never heard him compromise. He and the whole team at RZIM are willing to engage the culture and defend the faith and always (from everything I’ve seen) point to Jesus.
While there are long answers to seemingly simple questions, they make you think, including is it the best question. For instance, is Catholicism a cult? He doesn’t say it is a cult, rather he turns it around and says what a Christian is and that he knows both Catholics and Protestant that love, worship and follow Jesus.
In simple terms, the questions often looking for answers that divide is it a cult or is it this or that…and the consistent answer is to speak to the individual about what it means to follow Jesus.
The false teacher comments simply aren’t accurate.
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Well said Glenn ! I have been to many through many different denominational Christian churches in seeking the truth; answers. Ravi Zacharias does make one think and has been the most truthful Evangelical Minister, Pastor,Preacher or( Priest;except one) that I have heard. God Bless
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you judgemental, selfrighteous bastards…
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I think this false, and a complete lie about Ravi!
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Actually Vincent, it is not. The facts speak for themselves about what Ravi has chosen to involve himself in. Maybe you should contact RZM and ask why they are diverting from the truth of God’s Word in order to hold to inclusivism.
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From what I can tell, Ravi encourages all people to think about life and the actualization of truth implied by this life. From what I hear from his radio podcasts, it culminates in recognizing who we are in Christ. It is the hope that because Christ lives (defeated death and resurrected) we also have hope of life beyond . It’s about being mentally prepared to defend faith. The man speaks at universities and churches. He speaks to skeptics, believers, apostates, heretics, and anyone who will listen and open their minds. It’s about taking the message to any forum that has ears to hear. It’s about first majoring in the majors, and then letting the TRUTH set minds and hearts free! The Holy Spirit alone does the final work in the heart of mankind. It makes a whole lot of sense for him to talk to Mormons. Ravi is a man who also has sinned and fallen short. So are we all. But, Ravi certainly has been humbly blessed by God for such a time as this. People are bone-headed when someone tells them off. It is really a terrible approach to changing hearts, and anecdotal and empirical evidence backs up that assertion. Look at our two-party political system perhaps. Look at all the myriad examples of back-fire effect in people when they are bombarded with counter-ideas regarding life. Immunization back-lash is one prime recent example. The more education you try to shove down people’s throats, the more they quietly harden their stance in the face of all reason and evidence. The more you condemn people to start the conversation of life philosophy, the more they harden their hearts and firmly continue to be their own god.
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Hi, Pilgrim! Thank you for letting us know what is going on with Ravi Zacharias and his ministry. I remember being shocked and saddened that Ravi agreed to not pray in Jesus’ Name at the NDP. At the time, I was angry with the NDP people as causing him to stumble, but now see this as part of who he has become. We heard him speak in the days when he was the cherished child of the Christian Missionary Alliance – heard him speak at Beulah Beach (church camp in NW Ohio). We were proud of this fiery preacher and later apologist. Hmmm… proud?
Just need to let you know that the link to the pdf in the post and a comment is broken – “not found.”
God bless you and Ken Silva for necessary warnings. Yes, sad but necessary,
Maria
?
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I have been concerned that Ravi has lost his presence in his lectures. He appears to be lazier who has lost his convictions, and a historian reviewing what he believes are valid conviction. His anointing to hold the attention of his audience is not longer present. And I said to my colleagues, as a seminary professor, that it appears that he has grieved the Holy Spirt and his anointed by the Holy Spirit is gone. Others noted the same observation. I pray he has no brain tumor.
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Pingback: On Discerning Ravi Zacharias: It’s time to say what needs to be said | Discern The Time Library
Ravi in his own words; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CRLtT_cm8E
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I remember back in the 1980s and early 1990s new age movement was exposed andthe christian church was against it.. Now things are going emergent.Perhaps we need a dose of persecutiion. Even so come quickly Lord Jesus.
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I to am bothered by many things that Ravi has more recently said and the people he has tacitly or directly endorsed. I am really bothered by his unwillingness to repent of these things. I live in Idaho which has an LDS population second only to Utah. I know more LDS people and know more about them and their theology than the average apologist.
I listened to the entire video of his talk at the LDS Temple.
Because of my knowledge I thought that his entire talk was a very well disguised undermining of LDS theology. Mostly he wetted their appetite for the true gospel.
I cannot list all of his points, but he started with the statement, ” In order to introduce a lie it requires silencing the voices of truth”. Which is exactly what Joseph and Brigham did.
The LDS always talk among themselves about how, works righteous they all are. Ravi made it clear that righteousness cannot be obtained until after you have been redeemed.
He highly recommended that everyone read Pilgrims progress, a voice of truth. He quoted from it, …”you will never reach the celestial city except by the cross of Calvary. if you know LDS soteriology this was a deadly sneak attack. He also talked about having the courage TO CHANGE which can only come from having a NEW heart.
Ravi on other occasions has said that it is bad manner to forget that you are a guest in someone else’s house.
I know how the LDS work. Had Ravi been direct and blunt he would have been politely escorted off the stage.
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I love Ravi Zacharias. His ministry has helped me keep focus in following Jesus. Just like the blind man healed by Jesus, I do not know if this man is apostate but one thing I know. I was was blind to the love of Christ and now I can see.
I am saved, I believe in the exclusivity of Jesus Christ as the way the truth and the life. All this happened to me via the ministry of Ravi Zacharias!
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