You’ve seen the occult symbols on the Mormon temple in Salt Lake City in this previous post. Now here’s a video showing these same Satanic symbols on the Mormon temple in Nauvoo.
If you choose to do so, you can skip ahead to 2 minutes and 20 seconds into the video to begin seeing the Satanic symbols.
Christ Alone Wyoming 
You might want to pick up a copy of “Symbols in Stone: Symbolism on the Early Temples of the Restoration” by Matthew B. Brown. This book clearly explains the interpretation of the symbolism of the temples of the Church.
Regarding the pentagram, Eliphas Levi (born Alphonse Louis Constant), a former Roman Catholic priest, in 1856 turned the previously harmless Jewish and Christian pentagram into a ridiculous Satanic symbol. Previous to that strange departure, the pentagram was a common symbol of Hebrews and early Christians and was used to represent the five senses, the five wounds of Christ, health, and even the heavens. A simple search on Wikipedia will tell us this much:
“Probably due to misinterpretation of symbols used by ceremonial magicians, it later became associated with Satanism and subsequently rejected by most of Christianity sometime in the twentieth century.”
Other easy Googling online reveals:
“There are many connections between the pentagram and Christianity. Before the cross, it was a preferred emblem to adorn the jewelry and amulets of early Christians (followed by an ‘x’ or a phoenix). The pentagram was associated with the five wounds of Christ, and because it could be drawn in one continuous movement of the pen, the Alpha and the Omega as one.”
“A ‘point down’ pentacle is nothing new- nor is it necessarily Satanic when it appears as such. Historical depictions of the pentagram were as likely to be points down as point up- a distinction between one or the other was rarely made by the ancients.”
“The adoption of the pentacle as a Satanic emblem is quite recent, dating only to the latter half of the twentieth century.”
“Up until medieval times, the five points of the pentagram represented the five wounds of Christ on the Cross. It was a symbol of Christ the Saviour. This is in stark contrast to today where the pentagram is criticized by modern Fundamentalist Christians, as being a symbol of evil. The church eventually chose the cross as a more significant symbol for Christianity, and the use of the pentagram as a Christian symbol gradually ceased.”
“During the times of the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament), the pentacle was the first and most important of the Seven Seals – an amulet whose seals represented the seven secret names of God. It was inscribed on King Solomon’s ring, which is often called Solomon’s Seal in error. Each point of the pentagram was also interpreted as referring to the five books of the Pentateuch – the first five books in the Hebrew Scriptures; the Torah.”
“To the Hebrews the five points of the pentagram were tied to the Pentateuch (the first five books of the bible) and represented as a whole the concept of truth.”
“Perhaps most curious is the pentagram as it relates to early Christianity. Constantine the Roman Emperor who converted to Christianity chose to use the pentagram on his seal and amulet. Up until medieval times, the five points of the pentagram represented the five wounds of Christ on the Cross. During these times the pentagram carried no evil implications at all and in fact, in a lesser way than the cross, was symbolic of the Savior.”
“In the nineteenth century. Eliphas Lévi, an Occultist, was the first to adapt the inverted pentagram as symbolic of evil.”
It’s amazing what a few minutes of Google will do…
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Why would you people post this ridiculous nonsense?
Bryce Haymond is 100% right!
Are you trying to send the message that Mormons are Satan Worshipers?
Are you saying that the Mormon church’s agenda is to fool their followers into becoming Satanists?
I challenge the moderators of this web site to shut down this thread. You are speaking on something that you know nothing about.
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Bryce,
I Googled your quotes. What there original source was I have no clue, but every Google result I got for these quotes were nothing more than a cutting-and-pasting of the same material. Would you please document your sources for these quotes, rather than just lift a bunch of stuff off of Wikipedia (Which is not always the best source for credible information), and Wiccan message boards.
And Joe, if you don’t like this thread, don’t read it. Unless you can’t get the person that’s making you read this to remove the gun from your head.
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no gun to my head.
I asked a question, but since you are not going to answer it, maybe else someone will.
What is the point of this theard?
Are Mormons Satanists and they just don’t know it?
What you people are trying to do here is exactly what’s wrong with chrisianity!
I know many Mormons and I can tell you for certain that not one of them worships the devil.
The symols on their buildings have certain meaning to them. If you want to know what the meanings are, why don’t you ask THEM instead of spreading misinformation with you own misguided speculation.
What do you people think you will accomplish by speading misinformation?
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Bryce and Joe,
I think you’re confusing Biblical Christianity and Catholocism. I’d never heard of the five wounds of Christ until I read your comment. After reading a little about it, it seems to be a Catholic thing.
After searching the internet, I found the following at http://www.spiritual.com.au/articles/witchcraft/pentagram_history.htm
“To the Gnostics, the pentagram was the ‘Blazing Star’.
For the Druids, it was a symbol of Godhead.
In Egypt, it was a symbol of the ‘underground womb’.
The Pagan Celts ascribed the pentagram to the underground goddess Morrigan.”
So, it’s been a symbol of some sickening things for a long time (long before the Salt Lake temple was built).
The cross is by far and away the main symbol of Christianity, and the Gospel. It’s used in this way in the Bible in 1 Corinthians 1:17-18, Galatians 5:11, 6:12, 14, Philippians 3:18, Colossians 2:14, etc.
So, I have a couple of questions for you. Why doesn’t Mormonism use the cross as a symbol, when it’s clearly biblical? What do you say the symbols on the temple in Nauvoo and SLC mean?
Thanks,
Bill
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Joe,
If the Mormon God isn’t the one true God of the Bible, then they’re worshipping an idol, right?
1 Corinthians 10:19-20 says, “Do I mean then that a sacrifice offered to an idol is anything, or that an idol is anything? No, but the sacrifices of pagans are offered to demons, not to God, and I do not want you to be participants with demons.”
I don’t think Mormons believe they’re singing to demons every Sunday morning, but the Bible says they are.
Thanks,
Bill
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Oh really!!??? Joe M
The Nauvoo temple is covered with Pagan/Occult Symbols inside and out.
If you want to learn more about them click on my name go on the website at the bottom first row of pictures middle one, take a long look at the Nauvoo temple.
Then come back and explain why they are there and what goes on inside every Mormon temple.
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fourpointer,
That’s exactly what I did. I cut and paste from many different sites around the internet. Anyone who does a simple search for “pentagram” will find the same material all over the net. It isn’t hard to find, and this isn’t a scholarly paper. I even found that the pentagram was used as the seal of the city of Jerusalem for a time. Is Jerusalem Satanic too?
The most incredible thing is that you will deny as the day is long that the pentagram was ever used as a symbol by Christians.
Bill,
We don’t use the cross as a symbol because we choose to focus on the life and resurrection of the Savior, rather than His death. He lives today, He is not dead! He conquered death. “O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?” (1 Cor. 15:55). It would probably surprise you to find out that the early Christians did not use the symbol of the cross much either until about the second century.
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Bill, what you said is kinda my point. These symbols mean different things to different people. You obviously have no clue as to what these symbols mean to Mormons, but who in the world are you people to make a video of symbols on a temple, make up what you think it means and use that to convince people that Mormanism is a Satanic cult or something???
To be honest, I have NO CLUE what the point of this is!
This will be the THIRD time I’ve asked these simple questions…
What is the point of this thread?
What do you want people to think of Mormons as a result of that video?
Are we to believe that they are Satanists?
Helen, I am not a Mormon, so I certainly can not comment on the exact meaning of their symbols or on what goes on inside their temple. Oh, wait a minute… You’re not a Mormon either, and you clearly have NO IDEA why the adorn their temples with those symbols, so who are you to comment on them????
THAT IS MY POINT
YOU ARE BEING SPECULATIVE AND WILLFULLY SPREADING MISINFORMATION
YOU DON’T EVEN WANT TO KNOW THE TRUTH!
You are telling people what the symbols mean to YOU when you should be trying to find out what the symbols mean to THEM!
NOW, WILL SOMEBODY PLEASE ANSWER MY QUESTIONS?
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Bryce,
Paul is an early Christian, and I gave you verses where he used the cross as a symbol of Christianity and the Gospel. Anyone who reads the Bible is going to end up identifying the cross as a symbol.
1 Corinthians 1:18 says, “For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.” If the cross is foolishness to you, what does that indicate about you? Perishing means going to hell. Please think seriously about this. Do you think you deserve to go to hell/outer darkness?
A star or pentagram or any symbol doesn’t mean the same thing in all contexts. I have no doubt (as the guys in the video said) that Mormons are not intentionally worshipping Satan, or using horrible symbols all over their temple.
I had Mormon missionaries tell me that God has a physical body about my height, so it’s clear that they’re worshipping a different Father than I am. I worship the Father who is spirit (John 4:24). One of us is worshipping demon gods. I contend that you are worshipping demons. I’m not saying you do it knowingly or intentionally, but if you are, wouldn’t it stand to reason that demonic doctrines and symbols would creep into your religion?
Thanks,
Bill
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Bill, your point is invalid. In the scripture you reference, the greek word for “cross” is STAUROS. According to Vine’s Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words, The correct translation for this word would be “upright pole or stake”. The secondary meaning of “cross” is a later rendering acording to Greek lexicons and dictionaries.
In fact, the cross is indeed a Pagan symbol which predates christianity.
If you think I just made that up, Please reference:
An Illustrated Encyclopedia of Traditional Symbols
also… Dictionary of Mythology Folklore and Symbols
There you will find that the cross meant “everlasting Father Sun”
Bill, you said, “wouldn’t it stand to reason that demonic doctrines and symbols would creep into your religion”
What does this say about christianity in light of the fact that the cross was once a Pagan symbol???
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One more thing, Bill. I want to thank you for answering my questions.
I got it now…
Mormons are Demon worshipers, they just don’t know it!
It makes perfect sense!
Thanks bud!!!
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This video has a pretty interesting perspective on the “cross” and it even uses humor to do make its point.
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Basically, there are two ways to look at the situation. Here’s how the logic flows, depending on whether or not you think the symbols on the Nauvoo Temple are satanic or not. You can decide for yourself which one makes the most sense.
Symbols are Satanic
1. Mormon Church is secretly satanic.
2. Mormon Church does not want members to know they are worshipping Satan.
3. Mormon Church prominently displays satanic symbols on temples – apparently hidden in plain sight.
Symbols are not Satanic
1. Mormon Church does not teach or practice satanism.
2. Symbols on temples have a different meaning to Mormons that is not satanic.
Unless you believe that the symbols have some kind of power in and of themseleves (i.e. looking at a representation of an enlongated star will make you commit evil deeds), one has to allow for the possibility that symbols mean different things to different people. If that is the case, then projecting one’s own biases onto those symbols without examining what they mean to the people using the symbols is meaningless when it comes to understanding the meaning and intent behind the symbols.
Anyone who wants to do even a cursory amount of research on the history of symbols like the pentagram will find that they have been used extensively in many contexts, including both pagan and Christian contexts. The use of the pentagram in satanism is a relatively recent phenomenon. One can also find out what these symbols mean from the Mormon perspective.
On the other hand, if you want to believe Mormons are satanists, you will see whatever you want to see in the symbols used on the temple. I think that is where we’re at with this thread.
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Bill,
Of course the cross is a symbol. But as the early Christians viewed it, it depicts a purposely painful and gruesome method of public execution, the very method that the Lord and Savior was brutally killed. The early Christians didn’t like flaunting it, and neither do we. We prefer to focus on the living Christ, not the dead one.
What Paul meant by his use of the word “cross” is the Atonement and gospel of Jesus Christ, and His eternal sacrifice. We believe in Christ’s Atonement, His sacrifice, His gospel, and His death on the cross. But we do not like to use the cross as a symbol because it is the very method by which the Savior of the world was killed. We much prefer to think of the life of Christ, and that He is living today. If you had a very close friend who was killed by hanging, would you display a noose proudly? If a family member was killed by stabbing, would you display a knife to remember him by? In similar regard, we do not display the cross of Christ as a symbol of Him whom we worship as the beloved Redeemer of mankind.
I’m not sure how you reason that God does not have a physical body. If you truly believe in the doctrine of the Trinity, then you believe that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are all the same being. If that being is Jesus Christ, and he resurrected with a body of flesh and bones, then how does He now not have the same body with which he resurrected? (Luke 24:39)
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Good points Jigglewick.
Obviously, anyone who wants to project what they think the symbols of the temple represent may do so. But to the Latter-day Saints, they symbolize Christ and His gospel. And since it is the Latter-day Saints that are using the symbols, it might be more instructive to examine what they mean to the LDS.
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Jiggles, You put it better than I could Thank You!!!
Bryce, isn’t it a shame that you have to come to websites like this one to deffend your religion?
I do not have a problem with people who have religious convictions.
I DO have a problem with people attacking other religious groups ESPECIALLY when they are only spreading misinformation!
Bryce said “Him whom we worship as the beloved Redeemer of mankind.
HE WORSHIP THE SAME DUDE YOU GUYS DO!!!
Even if the Mormon church is FULL of faults, how could GOD find fault with him and send him off to Hell? His intentions are pure. He worships christ! He’s done no wrong.
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“Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution” (2 Tim. 3:12).
We aren’t going to get away from it, so I do my best to confront it and defend against it. Misconceptions and untruths can do much damage.
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I could tell you what the symbols mean to Mormons, having looked into the matter in some detail, but it would be pointless. Those who have already decided the symbols are satanic, like the two men in the video, will simply dismiss the explanation as a lie to cover the “real” satanic meaning. Therefore, I will just sit back and enjoy all the wild speculation.
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Like I said in the beginning of this thread, a good book on the subject is “Symbols in Stone: Symbolism on the Early Temples of the Restoration” by Matthew B. Brown. This book clearly explains many of the symbols on the temples of the Church.
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But you are right, it will make little difference to those who have already shrugged them off as satanic.
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A gentle reminder as to who began persecuting who.
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Yes, we spend all day every day persecuting those who worship Jesus Christ, especially since that is He whom we love and adore. I’m glad you brought that up. Fortunately, we still give them the benefit of a doubt that they are still, in fact, Christians.
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Yup, Pilgrim. Mormons believe their religion is correct. I wouldn’t put it quite like those quotes, but that’s just me.
Some of those quotes are regrettable, but I think it is natural in the early, formative years of any religious movement to emphasize differences with existing religious groups. After all, one doesn’t attract converts by saying, “Hey, we’re just like those other guys. Come join us.”
This phenomenon was evident in the early Christian church as numerous anti-Jewish sects sprang up, including some who where so vehemently anti-Jewish that they even rejected the Old Testament as scripture.
Thanks for sharing that though. In reality, it has been a two-way street in the past, something Mormons don’t always understand or acknowledge. However, I think in the last half-century, it has become pretty much a one-way street, with Mormons much more on the receiving end.
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Thanks for your comment Jigglewick.
You may not put it quite that way (attacking Christians in that manner), but your “inspired” prophets did. In fact isn’t that what God and Jesus supposedly told Joesph Smith in the woods? Wasn’t that the whole reason for the LDS organization? So back-peddling now to soften the blow is useless.
And you said: “After all, one doesn’t attract converts by saying, ‘Hey, we’re just like those other guys. Come join us.’” But isn’t this exactly what Mormonism’s PR campaign has done over the last decade, and isn’t this what you’re saying? We all worship the same Jesus, can’t we all just get along?
Christians will continue to defend the faith from false teachings whether it be in the form of Mormonism, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Catholicism, etc. Just as your organization will continue sending out missionaries to spread LDS teachings because (under all the sweet talk) they believe Christianity is apostate and that there is no salvation outside the LDS Church. (I know you wouldn’t put it that way).
“The Christian God is the Mormon’s Devil.”
Mormon Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses,Volume 5, Page 331
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For those of you interested in additonal exposes of Mormon beliefs and practices, I offer the following recent examples:
Mormon Church hierarchy performing child sacrifice, cannibalism and tantric sex in the Salt Lake Temple:
http://www.exposingsatanism.org/mormons.htm
Mormons planning takeover of government, buying up U.S. farmland in conspiracy to control food supply, will impose mark of beast on non-mormons and other interesting allegations:
http://truthseeker2473.blogspot.com/2008/01/mitt-romneys-bizarre-beliefs.html
Enjoy.
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You are right, Pilgrim. Christians will continue to defend the faith, which is exactly what I am doing.
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“We talk about Christianity, but it is a perfect pack of nonsense. . . . It is a sounding brass and a tinkling symbol; it is as corrupt as hell; and the Devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century.”
Mormon Prophet John Taylor, Journal of Discourses, Volume 6, Page 167
There’s no better defense than offense, huh?
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Yes, and you say the same about us, now don’t you. So what makes either of us better? I’ll tell you one thing, I don’t post defamations of other religions on the internet, for starters.
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No, Bryce, you personally may not, but on this blog we do expose false teachings and heresy.
If I had a nickle for every time someone came in here and told me what I should or should not blog about, I’d be rich. You have your blog and choose to post whatever you want, whereas I post what I want here. It’s the free marketplace of ideas.
Your founding prophet Joseph Smith chose a unique way to handle people like me. Instead of taking criticism like a prophet, he used a little thing called arson to silence his detractors. Remember the Nauvoo Expositor Press?
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It is a free marketplace of ideas. Unfortunately, your ideas are very pessimistic with regard to your fellow man. Fortunately, we seek higher things:
“We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.”
Actually, Joseph Smith lived and died like a prophet, the Expositor incident leading to that death, and sealed his testimony with his blood.
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OK Bryce, you can continue in your character assassination of me as you try to present yourself as pure and innocent as the wind-driven snow; have at it.
But you know as well as I do that Mormonism is replete with ugliness, including the truth surrounding Joseph Smith’s death. You can paint the picture to your liking all day long, but anyone who’s serious about the truth will examine the evidence and will come away with an entirely different view of Mormonism than what you’re trying to depict. And that is why a blog like this is seen as such a threat to you.
If you’ve noticed, a great portion of my posts on here about Mormonism are simply your own organization’s teachings. Letting LDS speak for themselves is not only very revealing, it sends LDS apologists into a tizzy. There’s got to be something wrong when a church hates you quoting them.
Contrary to what you may believe, I do not delight in “arguing.” I will continue to post quotes from Mormonism and let the chips fall where they may. Let the readers decide for themselves. You can continue to attack me for “attacking” LDS but as you can see, it hasn’t gotten either side very far.
– The Pilgrim
P.S. It’s been over two months since I posted some of Joseph Smith’s false prophecies, yet not one Mormon has tried to defend it. But I post a video showing pentagrams on a temple and I incur the wrath of Mormons. I wonder why the imbalance.
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Pilgrim,
Backpeddling? I’m afraid you have misunderstood my comments. Allow me to respond to a few of your points.
1. Inspired and infallible are two different things. Mormons do not believe in infallible or perfect prophets. We believe that all prophets, whether from biblical or modern times, are mortal men who have faults, biases and prejudices. Brigham Young is a good example. Clearly, as the quote you highlighted shows, he wasn’t so hot on the orthodox Christianity of his day, but then again, neither was Thomas Jefferson and a whole host of other people.
2. The LDS Church’s PR campaign is designed to combat misinformation that is being spread by anti-Mormon ministries and other critics of the LDS faith. This thread is a good example. The point of the PR campaign is not to say that Mormon beliefs are exactly the same as traditional Christianity. Mormons don’t want to be viewed as the same, because we are not. We do have some significant differences in belief.
For instance, I have trouble accepting the belief held by many mainstream Christians that a just, all-knowing God knows in advance that certain people (most, actually) are going to go to hell, but creates them anyway — and then sends them to hell to endure exquisite suffering for all eternity. Sorry. but I can’t make sense of such a doctrine.
So no, Mormons don’t want to be known as the same as other Christians. However, we have issues with very narrow and self-serving definitions of the term “Christian”.
3. You seem to fancy yourself a bit of an expert on Mormonism, but your claim that Mormons believe there is no salvation outside of the LDS Church is incorrect. More informed critics usually focus on the more universal salvation taught by the LDS Church. LDS doctrine teaches that because of the atonement of Jesus Christ, all men (except for a small number of sons of perdition) will be resurrected and receive a measure heavenly glory. That includes you, Pilgrim.
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Pilgrim, I’m sure you are a great person, with good intentions and desires. I am not trying to assassinate your character, but I do believe you are trying to assassinate my faith. I don’t like that. I don’t know how any good can come of that. I will defend my faith, for I believe that it is the true faith of Jesus Christ.
Mormonism is not replete with ugliness. Joseph Smith was murdered in cold blood. In fact, he was assassinated, a little known fact since he was a presidential candidate at the time. The fact that he might have been trying to protect himself in the moment that a mob was attacking him does not discredit his calling as a prophet of God in the least.
Our critics are the ones that try to depict Mormonism as everything that it is not. If you ask any Mormon what their religion is like you will get a very different picture than what our enemies paint. The reason is pretty clear; they want to destroy our church. But it can’t be destroyed, because it is the work of God. This is His Church. Christ is at the head of it, and leads it through revelation to living prophets and apostles. He has promised that it will continue onward until He comes again and the work is done.
Yes, your posts take quotes from LDS leaders, but how often are they taken out of the context? Often there is no regard for the person, the time, the culture, the situation, the right of the person has to an opinion, further revelation on the subject after that fact, possible error in transcription, mountains of LDS scholarly work on the subject, and other factors which influence understanding.
I would much prefer good doctrinal dialogue than bantering and bickering back and forth. But it would help if there wasn’t preconceived notions of evil which stand in the way of good discussion.
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On the subject of “there is no salvation outside of the LDS Church”, I might note that most of the work we do in our temples is for people who lived their entire mortal lives in other faiths besides LDS. Do we believe that they can obtain the highest reward of salvation in the kingdom of God? Absolutely.
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Thank you for your comment Jigglewick. I will try to answer your main points.
1. I do agree with you. Prophets are mere men, and capable of being wrong. With that in mind, was there ever a time (like BY) that Joseph Smith was wrong or any of the other prophets when they spoke for the Lord? If so, how does one differentiate between their errors and the truth?
2. Yes, we both know that we have different beliefs, but when I keep hearing Mormons (and those who claim to not be Mormons but defend everything Mormons believe) say that we worship the same Jesus, I do not buy that. The Jesus of Christianity and the Jesus of Mormonism are entirely different.
3. I have never claimed to be a “Mormon expert” but I admit I have spent a lot of time studying Mormonism, of which most of those studies came from Mormon published and distributed literature and books.
Now regarding the doctrine of no salvation outside the LDS church; it’s interesting that you commented on that. You are correct, LDS does have a very universal view of salvation (and I do like how you say that those other critics are “more informed”).
The truth is, this is another example of the ever-changing teachings and beliefs of Mormonism. As of late, LDS has pushed a more universalist-leaning salvation message (another PR move to make the church more palatable) but when one looks at the earlier teachings of your church, they see an entirely different view of salvation. At the risk of sounding “more informed” than those other critics, allow me to cite a few examples:
We declare it to all the inhabitants of the earth from the valleys in the tops of these mountains that we are the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints—not a church but the church—and we have the doctrine of life and salvation for all the honest-in-heart in all the world. Who else has got it? Is it to be found in the creeds of Christendom? It is not.
Brigham Young
Journal of Discourses
Volume 12 Page 173
1868
Every intelligent person under the heavens that does not, when informed, acknowledge that Joseph Smith, jun., is a Prophet of God, is in darkness, and is opposed to us and to Jesus and his kingdom on the earth.
Brigham Young
Journal of Discourses
Volume 8 Page 223
1860
Whosoever confesseth that Joseph Smith was sent of God to reveal the holy Gospel to the children of men, and lay the foundation for gathering Israel, and building up the Kingdom of God on the earth, that spirit is of God, and every spirit that does not confess that God has sent Joseph Smith, revealed the everlasting Gospel to and through him, is of Antichrist, no matter whether it is found in a pulpit or on a throne.
Brigham Young
Discourses of Brigham Young
Page 435
The true gospel of Jesus Christ was restored to earth in the last days through the instrumentality of Joseph Smith. It is found only in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
Bruce R. McConkie
Mormon Doctrine
Page 334
1966 Edition
If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation. There is no salvation outside The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 2, pp. 1-350.)
Bruce R. McConkie
Mormon Doctrine
Page 670
1966 Edition
[The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is] the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth…
Joseph Smith Bruce R. McConkie
Doctrine and Covenants 1:30 Mormon Doctrine
Section 1:30 Page 136
November 01, 1831 1966 Edition
In a revelation given by Joseph Smith in 1831—labeled by the Lord, “My preface unto the book of commandments”—Jesus declared that the Church He had established through the American Prophet was “the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth.”
Milton R. Hunter
The Gospel Through The Ages
Page 288
1945
[The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is] the only Church which has the power to save and exalt men in the hereafter.
Bruce R. McConkie
Mormon Doctrine
Page 136
1966 Edition
There is no salvation outside this one true church, the church of Jesus Christ [of Latter-day Saints].
Bruce R. McConkie
Mormon Doctrine
Pages 138
1966 Edition
And it came to pass that he [an angel] said unto me: Look, and behold that great and abdominal church, which is the mother of abominations, whose foundation is the devil. And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth.
Book of Mormon
1 Nephi 14:9-10
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Actually, the doctrine of universal salvation comes from D&C 76 (recorded in 1832). Thanks for your comments though.
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Dear Bryce & Jigglewick,
All quotes are in context and I cite where they can be found if investigators wish to research for themselves. This way when someone says I took it out of context, it can be easily verified that I did not.
Thanks for the D&C 76 suggestion. However, am I now supposed to ignore all those other quotes?
See, it’s like nailing jell-o to a wall with LDS doctrine. As soon as someone cites one thing here, you guys cite something else over there, all the while ignoring the fact that your teachings are contradicting each other.
I do not have any ill-will toward either of you and think you guys have the best of intentions as well. I honestly believe that you believe what you believe with all your heart (that was a lot of “believes”) but at the core of the debate, we both can’t be right. One of us is following a false prophet, a false Christ, a false church. I believe it is Mormonism that is false, you (or at least your earlier prophets did) believe that orthodox Christianity is false.
So, at this point, I will go about my business of posting on LDS teachings and you guys can continue about your business. We will certainly not agree, but I have enough faith in my “fellow man” that given enough evidence, they can weigh it all out and come to a reasonable conclusion as to which is preaching “another gospel” (Galatians 1).
Sincerely,
– The Pilgrim
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Pilgrim,
There are a few issues you need to consider if you want to understand the Mormon perspective (although I’m still not convinced you do — it appears you simply want to disprove it, even if it comes at the expense of truth as in this whole business about satanic symbols on the Nauvoo Temple).
1. D&C 76 is authoritative LDS doctrine and scripture. Quotes from Mormon Doctrine and Journal of Discourses are not. LDS folks understand that.
2. The quotes you list above are not necessarily contradictory. The term “salvation” is heavily nuanced in LDS theology. Sometimes it is used to refer to universal salvation as described above. Other times, it is used to refer to the highest level of salvation Mormons refer to as “exaltation”, often depending on the context and the audience. Again, LDS folks know what they are hearing when they hear it, because generally, they understand the nuances of the term as it is used in Mormonism.
3. I do not have to justify or explain every quote by every leader of the LDS Church. Some of them got it wrong on various matters. For example, Bruce R. McConkie was censured by President David O. McKay because of some of the things he wrote in Mormon Doctrine.
I’ve enjoyed our conversation. Perhaps we can explore some of the early teachings of the Christian church sometime (pre-Nicea). I think that might be instructive with respect to your last comment.
Best of luck to you.
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Well, from what I have read, I would say that by far the Mormon gentlemen who have participated in this discussion have been very kind, polite, informative and have done a very good job of defending their position.
On the other hand, may of the comments made by christians thus far have been mean spirited, condesending and rude. The typical “We’re going to heaven and you’re not… neener, neener” type filth that i’m so used to hearing from you poeple.
Pilgrim, how does this kind of behavior further your cause?
How does this video further your cause?
Within the context of this very discussion, it has been PROVEN that the symbols on that temple do not have Satanic meaning to Mormon people. Rather than defend your position, you chose to take this thread way off track. You have yet to present us with so much as what the POINT OF THIS VIDEO IS!!!
So please sir, sum it up. What does the video mean? What does it prove? Will you admit that you were mistaken as to the meaning of these symbols???
This was an inerresting topic. Can you please get it back on track?
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Dear Joe “I swear I’m not a Mormon, I’m not, I’m not, I’m not” M.,
Thanks for your unbias play-by-play on who on this thread was naughty and who was nice. I’m certain those reviewing your comments will find the most acidic venom came from yourself. You may want to review how you came in here with your guns blazing.
I am sorry if you haven’t figured out yet the connection between the pentagrams and Mormonism. Let me break it down:
If Mormonism is a false religion based on a false prophet who received a false revelation from An Angel of Light, then you do the math! If it’s not of God, who else or what else would be its source? Now I know that you disagree with that view of Mormonism, but the point is not whether you agree with it or disagree with it, the point is that I am merely trying to explain this perspective to you because you are having such a difficult time understanding the connection.
With that said, do I honestly believe your average everyday Mormon believes he is worshiping Satan, of course not, so please don’t go to that extreme to muddy the water.
Now I’ve given the other two gentleman the last word on this, and I will extend the same courtesy to you. But may I also offer you a piece of advice?
You guys seriously need to come up with another plan of attack. Your tactics are getting very predictable.
I go for weeks with hardly any comments form Mormons, then all of a sudden I get spammed with Mormon comments all at once (coincidence) and in that gaggle of Mormons there’s always one that claims to not be a Mormon (coincidence) and he always comes in the same group (coincidence) at the same time (coincidence) and comments on the very same post (coincidence).
I refer to him as the Designated Commenter (DC).He’s the guy that gets the short end of the straw and has to “play” the neutral guy who is so valiant in his honesty he can’t help but defend the LDS position on every single point (coincidence) from those mean Christians. But every single time the DC ends up overplaying his role and gives away his true intentions. It’s very predictable.
I’ve also come to notice that the DC is usually the guy that is the most rude and vitriolic of the group and always favors the LDS side, of course. (And yes, there are Mormons who come in here and aren’t a part of these groups; I’m not talking about them).
Perhaps staggering your appearances will help disguise your plan. Or even a little less venom from the “neutral guy” may help. Or try having the DC disagree on something in LDS. It will go much further in convincing people that you are not bias.
This wave of Mormon spam will pass, like all the others, and a new wave will come in time with a new “I’m not a Mormon but they’re all right and you’re wrong” DC.
The screen names may change but the tactics remain the same.
With all that said, I give you the last word as I move on. Good night.
Sincerely,
– The Pilgrim
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You are too funny!
I can see how you might think I am a Mormon as I took their side on this one.
The only thing I ever came out against is the deliberate spreding of misinformation.
You still refuse to accept that perhaps the mormons have (and had) something different in mind than Satanism with respect to the use of these symbols.
I’d like to tell you a little about myself if you don’t mind.
I’d been a born again chrisian since birth for almost 30 years (I am now 43 years old)! My grand father was a minister, My father was a deacon of our church, I was raised a good christian boy and was always very involved in my church. I would argue bitterly against my mormon friends, my catholic friends, my jehova witness friends, my jewish friends, hindu, bhudist, you name it! I was 100% convicted in my faith! I was right and they all had it wrong. I was going to heaven and they were all destined to burn in hell for eternity. This is not a very comforting thing to think about your closest friends, is it?
I started to contemplate how god could send these good people to the hot place when all they’ve done is follow faithfuly the tenants of the religion that they were brought up in, just as I had done. As I started to doubt my beliefs… one day a book showed up on a coffee table at work. It is titled Christian Fictions (I think). I didn’t even make it half way through this book before I came to the realization that I had it wrong all these years.
I found that it is simple to poke holes in christianity and the bible just a I had been poking holes in other religions for so many years.
Now that I have become an athiest (not a mormon, sir. An ATHIEST) and I am no longer confined in that little box of christianity, I find it dispicable when people like you just want to sit around and critisize other people’s faiths. I do not think for a second that you are doing christianity any favors with this your little hate campaign.
You may see me as being a hypocite because I once did the exact same things you are doing here. I have great regret for treating my friends the way I did and for trying to convert them repeatedly when they wanted nothing to do with it. I have since apologized to them for the horrible things I preached to them.
As I stated, I have no problem with people pf faith, whatever that faith might be. I do have a problem with you for spreading misleading information in the name of doing god’s work or whatever… That’s why I came in with my “guns a blazin’ ”
Your attitude is dreadfull! I feel so very sorry for the good people who may visit your web site seeking acurate information. Unfortunately they will be mislead due to your egotistical close-mindedness.
Religions fighting against each other the way you promote on this web site is precisely what drive people like me AWAY from christianity. Above I stated, “How does this help your cause?” Trust me, you attitude hurts your cause far more than you will ever understand. I and millions like me are proof of the validity of that statement.
Anyway, last word means nothing to me. You or aynyone else is more than welcome to comment. I’ll even tone it down a notch. LOL
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Mormons are sly sneaky little critters aren’t they? 🙂
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why do I even try…
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Pilgrim,
For what it’s worth, I found this thead from a Google blog search. I have never posted on this site before.
Your comments about Mormon posters sound rather conspiratorial. It’s difficult to carry on a rational discussion with someone who believes, without any prior experience with you, that you are deceptive or a “sneaky little critter”, or worse yet, satanic.
Also, if you post an attack on someone’s religion and then regard the comments you receive as “spamming”, then perhaps this whole blogging thing isn’t for you.
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Hello,
We know Jesus wasn’t crucified on a stake, because He had nail marks (plural) in his hands from the nails (plural, John 20:25). We know He wasn’t crucified on an X shape cross, because there was a sign nailed to the cross above Him. Are there any other possible shaped crosses?
I love the cross, because Jesus’ death means my eternal life. The greatest act of love was performed on the cross by God Almighty (John 15:13). “But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed” (Isaiah 53:5). Are you trusting in the blood of Jesus, and nothing else?
Great video, Pilgrim. I’m putting it in my Youtube favorites.
Thanks,
Bill
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Bill,
As has already been pointed out, the gentlemen in the video have no idea why the symbols are on the temple or what they mean. The even admit as much at 6:08. Basically, it’s 9 minutes of speculation. And yet, I’m sure you find the video authoritative, because it confirms what you already believe about Mormons.
I too will be adding this to my YouTube favorites, but for different reasons.
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Jigglewick,
I asked Bryce and Joe what the symbols mean in the 5th comment (42 comments ago). I’ve read all of the comments, and no one attempted to answer. Bryce urges people to buy a book. You say you’re not going to lower yourself to our level by bothering to tell us (1:44 pm Feb 4 comment). You’ll forgive me if I have doubts about why suns, moons and pentagrams would be on a Mormon temple.
Jesus created everything by Himself (John 1:3, Colossians 1:16, Isaiah 44:24). He created you, me, and Satan, and He isn’t any of our brothers. There is only one God any time and any place (Isaiah 43:10). This means you can’t become a god if you’re a good enough Mormon. The problem with that is that there are no good Mormons. No one is good (Luke 18:19), our hearts are desperately wicked (Jeremiah 17:9), we’re born enemies with God (Colossians 1:21), spiritually dead (Ephesians 2:1), and a child of the devil (John 8:44).
You might not believe that, but you can test yourself on the Ten Commandments. Have you ever told a lie? Have you ever stolen anything? Have you ever looked at someone with lust? If you have, you’re an adulterer (Matt. 5:28), thief and liar. You’ve broken God’s law, and just like any guilty criminal, you must be punished. You must be perfect to get to heaven (Matt 5:48). Do you believe you deserve to go to hell (along with me)?
Jesus died for your sin, but if you don’t have a proper belief in Him, or if you’re trusting in your own good works (LDS Article of Faith #3) rather than Jesus alone, you can’t go to heaven (John 8:24, Galatians 3:10). Please think about this. I’m not saying it to be mean. I want to see you in heaven.
Thanks,
Bill
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since you’ve watched the video 1000 times by now, the least you cound do is pay a little closer attention to what gas been stated in the comments.
I responded directly to that question as it was asked by you and Helen.
Here is the quote:
“I am not a Mormon, so I certainly can not comment on the exact meaning of their symbols or on what goes on inside their temple. Oh, wait a minute… You’re not a Mormon either, and you clearly have NO IDEA why the adorn their temples with those symbols, so who are you to comment on them????”
How could I more honestly answer your question than that?!?!?!?
Moreover, Bryce answered that question before you even asked it
Quote:
“Up until medieval times, the five points of the pentagram represented the five wounds of Christ on the Cross. It was a symbol of Christ the Saviour. This is in stark contrast to today where the pentagram is criticized by modern Fundamentalist Christians, as being a symbol of evil. The church eventually chose the cross as a more significant symbol for Christianity, and the use of the pentagram as a Christian symbol gradually ceased.”
If you think that is an incorrect statement, prove it. Counter it. There apears to be much refrence material that states exactly what Bryce said. Why then would any so called christian be surprised that it is used by other christian groups when we know it has historcally been a christian symbol?
Sad thing is that the point has been PROVEN over and over and over, but you will continue to spread your misinformation as though you have a clue what you’re talking about.
SAD SAD SAD
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OK, Bill, I’ll help you out on the symbols, but you could have found out for yourself with a little bit of honest research. According to Wandle Mace, a foreman who worked on the original Nauvoo Temple, Joseph Smith directed that the appearance of the temple, including the positioning of the sun, moon and stars, be a representation of Revelation 12:1:
“And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet and upon her head a crown of twelve stars.”
Not nearly as exciting as satanism, but there you have it. It was meaningful to the folks who built the Nauvoo Temple as a symbol of the church and the coming forth of the gospel.
It should be noted that the pentagram was not considered a satanic symbol in Joseph Smith’s day. Nor does it necessarily have to be considered as such today. Like any symbol, it can be used for good or evil.
I hope that helps.
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It might be interesting to note that the Wilshire Jewish Temple in Los Angeles had a large inverted pentagram above the front door when it was built. Here is a photo from 1862:
http://www.wilshireboulevardtemple.org/common/viewphoto.php?id=248
Do you believe the Jews are satanic too? Or are you willing to submit that this symbol had a different meaning to most at one time?
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If anyone wants to know what the pentagram really represents to the LDS and it’s historical meaning, I recommend the following study by Matthew B. Brown:
Click to access Stars.pdf
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Jigglewick and Bryce,
Thanks for the explanation and the links. That seems like a pretty good explanation.
What do you think about the other stuff I asked about? There are plenty of contradictions between the Bible and LDS doctrine. Do you realize that you’re betting your eternity on the reliability of Joseph Smith? The Bible is clear about what will happen to you if he was wrong. The stakes are extremely high. Are you sure you’re willing to bet everything on Joseph Smith?
Thanks,
Bill
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Yes, I’m willing to bet eternity on Joseph Smith, because I know that he was a prophet of God. Just like we both bet our eternity on the Bible which was also written by prophets of God. I have just extended my bet to modern-day prophets, while you reject them.
What may seem like contradictions between the Bible and LDS doctrine are really misunderstandings. Indeed, the Bible shows contradictions with itself. Is that cause to dismiss it?
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Bill,
I appreciate your sincere and heartfelt concern for my eternal well-being. In answer to your question, I believe that salvation comes through Christ; specifically, that Christ’s atonement and resurrection provide the gifts of forgiveness for sins and triumph over death. Only Christ can provide that. It is not something we can achieve on our own.
The critic will parse what I just said and accuse me of either a) being dishonest and lying about what I believe or b) being ignorant of LDS teachings, and he will be incorrect on both counts.
There are several underlying assumptions in your last comment that I don’t share. For example, your question about relying on Joseph Smith implies what I view as a false dichotomy: either I can be a Christian and enjoy the gift of salvation, or I can be LDS, but I can’t be both. I do not view the two as being mutually exclusive.
You also make some assumptions about contradictions between the Bible and LDS doctrine and the nature of hell that I probably do not share. I think I understand your position, having heard and read the arguments many times, but I think there is another perspective. I have religious, scriptural and philosophical reasons for my position.
This is a departure from the topic of this thread and a potentially lengthy conversation, so if you’d like to know what I think about the questions you asked, feel free to contact me at ordinarymormon@gmail.com and we can carry on that conversation via email. I would be happy to have a thoughtful and respectful dialog with you on the subject if you so choose. I have no interest in persuading you to accept my way of thinking, but I think I can provide you with a perspective that may help clear up some potential misperceptions you may have about the LDS faith.
It’s up to you, of course, but I always welcome a constructive and friendly exchange of views.
Thanks.
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Bryce,
There are no contradictions in the Bible. I can find the answer to whatever contradiction you think there may be.
Thanks,
Bill
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Matthew and Luke give two contradictory genealogies for Joseph (Matthew 1:2-17 and Luke 3:23-38). They cannot even agree on who the father of Joseph was…
This is the first one I stumbled accross. There are more, but let’s take it one at a time.
I might suggest starting a new topic for this as it would be an interresting discussion but is far off topic…
I’m happy to see that Bryce and Jiggles were able to put the myth to bed regarding the “Satanic” symbols that started this thread. I am sorry if I offended anyone. I can be a jerk sometimes, LOL
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The truth of Mormonism is hard to face sometimes, but facts are facts!
Jay in this video is standing in front of the Nauvoo temple speaking to the issue of Pagan/Occult Symbols.
John 8:32
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Bill,
Exactly. There aren’t any contradictions between the Bible and the Book of Mormon either. I can find the answer to whatever contradiction you think there may be between the two.
Helen,
Yes, facts are facts. If you’ve followed this thread at all, you will realize that the pentagram, as well as other symbols on the temple, are not the pagan/occult symbols that Jay thinks they are. The pentagram was reinterpreted as a satanic symbol in a nineteenth century. Before that time it meant all types of things good and bad, including being used by the early Christians to represent Jesus Christ.
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Joe,
This whole “two different genealogies” things has been put to bed long ago. Matthew’s account traces Jesus’ lineage back through Joseph. Notice, Matthew says that “Jacob begat Joseph…”
However, Luke traces it back through Mary. A literal interpretation of Luke 3:23 would read, “This same Jesus began year thirty [of His life], being, as it were, regarded as [Greek: enomizeto–regarded by custom] the son of Joseph, the son of Heli, the son of Matthat…” In other words, Jesus was considered to be the “son of Lehi” and the “son of Matthat”, etc, just as He was considered “Son of David.”
Of their previous descendants, space does not allow to go into such factors as adoption, Levirate marriages, ameness of names, etc.
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That arguement make no sense. Any body withan open mind rejects the notion that Luke traces back through Mary. The bible does not mention Mary at all and explicitly states that this is Joseph geneology. “Now Jesus Himself began His ministry at about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, the son of Heli, the son of Matthat, the son of Levi, the son of Melchi, the son of Janna, the son of Joseph…” useing the word “Regarded” changes nothing and making up the word “considered” shows only that you are willing to reword scriputure.
More important is the reason for the geneology. You can not deny that the porpose of the geneology in both Mathew and Luke is to prove Jesus’ is a direct desendant of King David in order to fullfil mesianic prophecy. How would this be accomplished through Mary?
Paul says that Jesus “was born of the seed of David”. Seed is transtated from the greek word “sperma”. In ancient thinking women did not count in reckoning descent cuz it was then believed that the complete human was present in the man’s sperm (the woman’s egg being discovered in 1827). The woman’s womb was just the soil in which the seed was planted.
The geneologies are completely different but they’re both designed to prove that Jesus is a direct desendant of David in order fullfil prophecy.
I think a new thread should be started for this discusion. I bet a lot of people would find it interresting…
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The reason these two men give their accounts of Christ’s genealogy (Matthew from Joseph’s side, Luke from Mary’s) was to prove that not only was Jesus’ claim to the throne of David valid, but also to show that He fulfilled what God spoke through the prophet in Isaiah 7:14, and what He spoke to the serpent in Genesis 3:15. Luke doesn’t have to mention Mary in the genealogy, as the word “enomizeto” is clearly indicative of Jesus’ adoptive father being Joseph, thus leading one to infer that this is the line of Mary.
Plus, if you notice at the end of Matthew’s genalogy, he writes, “…and Jacob begat Joseph, the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus who is called ‘Christ’.” Jesus was not “begotten” by Joseph, He was “born of Mary” (see also Galatians 4:4). This accomplished the Genesis prophecy, that the “Seed of the woman” would cruch the serpent’s head. Since “seed” only refers to the beggeting of sons by fathers, and since the sinful nature is passed along by the father, Jesus could not have had a human father, otherwise He would have inherited the sinful human nature.
He was “regarded, considered” the son of Joseph, Heli, Matthat, David, Abraham, etc. This is NOT “rewording Scripture”, but simply rendering what was originally written in the Greek. That’s what was written, that’s what it means. And even if we do go with “supposed”, that still doesn’t change the meaning of what is being said. If it was “supposed [thought, believed] that Jesus was the son of Joseph”, then He would still have been “regarded” as Joseph’s son, “considered to be” Joseph’s son, and “accepted” as Joseph’s son.
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You just created another contradiction.
Paul said “Jesus was born of the seed of David”
Then how can you argue that jesus is adopted (you are assumin that; it’s not stated in the bible anyway)?
Prophecy is very very clear that the mesiah would be a direct decendant of King David and you already admitted that Mathew’s geneology links Joseph to King David. Jesus must then be his son. That’s a BIG contradiction.
Any “Vigrin” is a mistranslation of Isaiah 7:14. The word is correctly translated from ancient Hebrew as “Young Woman”
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Of course the Messiah must come through David (John 7:42). And He did. If you read Matthew’s genalogy, you will notice something in Matthew 1:12. It says, “And after they were brought to Babylon, Jechoniah begat Shealtiel…” Now, this presents a problem, because in Jeremiah 22:28-30, God says of Jeconiah (This passage in Jeremiah refers to him as “Coniah”, the title “Jeh” being stripped from him) that “none of his descendants shall prosper, sitting on the throne of David, and ruling in Judah anymore.” This is another reason that Christ could not have been the natural son of Joseph. Christ’s Davidic bloodline came through Mary, since she did not descend from (Je)coniah.
And as far as my “assuming” Joseph adopted Jesus, with “no Biblical proof”: Read Luke 2:41-50. Verse 41 says, “His parents went to Jerusalem…” Verse 48 says, “…His mother said to Him, ‘Son, why have you done this? Look, Your father and I have sought you anxiously.” And, of course, in Luke 3:23, it says that Jesus was, “(as it was supposed) the son of Joseph, the son of Heli…” Now, if Jesus was not adopted as a son by Joseph, then Luke would have said, “Jesus began His ministry, being (or so it was supposed) the son of Joseph…”
As far as the Greek rendering of the Hebrew word “almah” into “parthenos”, this is perfectly legitimate. “Almah” can refer to a young woman, and also a chaste virgin. Matthew clears up any misconceptions by using the Greek word “parthenos.” Besides, how miraculous a sign would it be for a “young woman” to give birth to a child?
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It’s truly amazing how much we let ourselves be affected by ignorance.
Pilgrim, the first respondent said it best. What is the purpose of this post? It certainly isn’t to relay anything of fact, as has been clearly shown.
Here’s another question for you. Do you ever write out of a desire to unite your readers? Out of a desire to spread Christ’s message of love and compassion?
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Kudos for your clever linking.
It wasn’t my intention to be disparaging.
Ignorance defined by dictionary.com:
ig·no·rance (noun) – The condition of being uneducated, unaware, or uninformed.
Show me, citing academic references, how pentagrams are “satanic.”
If you can’t, what I’ve said would seem to be true. Whether you accept that as a negative is your prerogative.
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Jerome,
I see this stuff and I just get angry. I end up coming across as a hot – head and then wish I hadn’t. LOL You’ve got a cool head man; and I respect that a lot!
I checked out your Violet Sun site and I like what you have to say there. I am happy as an atheist and have no intention of taking up Wicca (or maybe I just don’t understand it enough yet) but I must admit that I really like the message and the beliefs in general.
This Bill guy said “Thanks for the explanation and the links. That seems like a pretty good explanation.” yet they still will not remove the video. This is not about ignorance anymore. It is willful spreading of misinformation. They just want to make other religions and faiths look as bad as possible. That is the point of this web site and I, for one, do not understand it!
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The claims made in this thread regarding the Mormon church and its temples are absolutely ridiculous to the point of complete absurdity. I am LDS and my family has been LDS back to the days of emigrating from England and pushing hand carts across the plains. Any comparison to Mormonism and Satanism shows a complete lack of understanding regarding either.
I encourage all who are interested in knowing the will of the Lord Jesus Christ and the truth of his restored Gospel on the Earth today to pray about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (AKA the Mormon Church), the Book of Mormon, and the Lord’s prophet on the Earth today, who is the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is the only church on the face of the Earth today that identically matches the church and doctrine that was setup anciently by Jesus Christ and was later headed by Peter. Be not deceived people who would have you listen to them and believe otherwise, but PRAY ABOUT IT FOR YOURSELF, HAVING A DESIRE TO KNOW THE TRUTH OF ALL THINGS< AN HAVING FAITH THAT YOU WILL RECEIVE AN ANSWER and I testify to you in the name of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, the son of God, who was and is the great Jehovah, that you will receive and answer and will know for yourself of the divinity and truthfulness of the Lord’s restored church.
I say this in the name of my Lord, savior, and redeemer Jesus Christ, Amen!
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I think Colby meant to say “in the name of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, one of the sons of God!” There is no reason to pray about something that is completely contrary to the clearly revealed Word of God, and that is false doctrine. While I am not trying to make comparisons between Mormonism and satanism, I do heed the Word of God when it says to avoid those who preach another gospel. Though it be a man or an angel (like Moroni), they are to be accursed!
May I remind the reader the Bible also clearly states that if a prophet is not 100% accurate on their prophecies, they were labeled as a FALSE prophet AND STONED. Pretty much sums the status of EVERY so-called prophet in the “restored” church.
The issue is not with the words you are using, but exactly WHAT you mean by those words. Unfortunately, the Mormon church has chosen to adopt the language of evangelicals so that they appear to be true Christians.
As the lovely hymn puts it, “My hope is built on nothing less than JESUS’ blood and righteousness!” To lean on the LDS, the Book of Mormon, a false prophet, etc. is only a recipe for disaster – a Christ-less eternity! That is not something which I rejoice about, but find it very say that people can be so duped into believing what is fed them by each succeeding priest, rabbi, cleric, pope, imam, pastor, or prophet who teaches what goes against the gospel as taught by the apostle Paul.
Following Christ and not man-made religion,
The Desert Pastor
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Pray about whether or not Mormonism is true? Well why not pray about Roman Catholicism, Islam, and Hinduism too?
We are never instructed to pray about whether a belief is true. Never once when Jesus was confronting false teachers did He ever tell them to “pray about it.” Nope, He said to them time and time again, “Have you not read,” and “For it is written.”
The truth was already to behold in the Scriptures and no one needed to go outside of His revealed Word for some esoteric, emotional, mystic experience or feeling. The Bereans even followed suit when they studied the Scriptures to make sure what Paul was saying was true. They didn’t pray to see if it was true, they studied the Word of God.
This is where LDS is afraid. Have you noticed that they never, ever encourage you to take up your Bible and study to see if LDS is true? Nope, they know they’d lose hands down every time and never get a convert. Check out the video The Bible vs The Book of Mormon to find out why.
Study to show yourself approved. Make an educated, not indoctrinated, decision.
*What do Mormons really believe about Christians?
*3,913 Documented Changes to the Book of Mormon
*Mormonism’s History of Outlandish Outer space Opinions, Crazy Cosmology, Silly Spacemen, and Lunar Lunacy
*What Mormons Have Said About the Apostle Paul
*
According to Mormonism, Are We To Have A Personal Relationship With Jesus Christ Or Not?
*LDS finally admits that Joseph Smith was a polygamist, and that he told different versions of the “first vision.”
*On this Martin Luther King Jr. Day, the Mormon church wishes to remind you that they’ve been racism-free since 1978.
*Joesph Smith explains the meaning of the word “Mormon.”
*When is an “everlasting covenant” not an “everlasting covenant?” When polygamy becomes unpopular.
*The Gordon B. Hinckley Interview
*
Recognizing the 202nd birthday of Joseph Smith by posting some of his false prophecies.
*Requirements for Mormon Salvation
*
Thanks to Mormonism, discerning good from evil is as easy as a handshake or a hair color.
*33 Facts Mormons Won’t Tell You
*
Mormonism on how spiritual veggies differ from earthly veggies.
*
The Mormon doctrine of Blood Atonement as taught from the mouth of Brigham Young.
*
The Doctrine of Blood Atonement as taught by the Mormon organization.
*
The top 5 Brigham Young teachings that Mormons desperately try to conceal from you.
*
Who is the “Angel of Light” and what contribution did he make to Mormonism through Joseph Smith?
*Lifting the Veil on Polygamy
*DNA vs The Book of Mormon
*The Lost Book of Abraham
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I don’t know why everyone is making such a fuss over this Pentagram thing anyway! I think it ultimately comes down to where your heart is, not any outward signs. I will let the Savior judge me for my heart and character. No symbol – for whatever it may have represented throughout the ages is of any consequence to Savior’s atoning power and grace in my live – only actions will condem you in the end, not any symbol. Symbols don’t save people they just represent different ideas. I have seen many people wear the cross around there necks and yes even the cross can be worn as a conterfeit symbol such as wearing the cross as a stylish symbol of adornment and thereby, not knowing the master who bore that pain. And yes, we as LDS can wear the CTR rings without making the right choices in life as well. As LDS we do not condem the usage of the cross. We just choose to believe in the living Christ as our symbol and that symbol is our interpretation of the Son of Man – The Bright and Morning Star! Throughout the Roman Empire many people suffered death by crucifixion but only one man suffered, not only the physical pain but he endured what we could not do and that was to suffer spiritual suffering. So great was that suffering, that it caused him to bleed from every pore. We respect the cross as a symbol and what it means to many Christian people throughout the world. How would it be interrupted if someone wore a snake with wings around there necks? This symbol could also, to some people, be represented as a symbol of the Savior? The first Christians used the sign of the fish over the cross. The sign of the fish was a secret way of showing you believed in Christ until the Roman pagans found out what that symbol meant. The pagan romans showed the cross in derogatory drawings on walls throughout Rome with Jesus drawn as a donkey nailed to a cross. Over the years the Christian church excepted the cross as a symbol of faith through Constantine’s usage of putting it on his shields of war. Our so called pentagram does not even have the same likeness as the so called upside down symbol has. All symbols can be conterfeit – just as satan could deceive someone as an angle of light. It is up to the person to decern and know the difference. By there fruits you shall know them.
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The whole point of the question at hand is “why is there pagan symbols on a temple”.The joe character has some valid points but anyway you look at the history of the pentagram,it is not of Christianity!.It was in 1966 when LeVey made it part of his satanic church but he did’nt seem to have a problem with the concept levi put on the table?.Also,why did jospeh and hyrum smith deal in witchcraft in the first place?.Jupiter Talisman,The Cloak?.Ring a bell? History strenghthens my faith in Christ while it detroys faith in mormonism.No one here said that the L.D.S. are being fooled or are worshipping satan.What the point is,is that the whole church is false!.utlm.org will give you any info you need about mormonism.Jerald and Sandra Tanner are very hated by the mormons but knowing them personally I can tell you that they are sincere in what they do.They do not hate the mormons!.Sandra is the 3rd gen grandchild of brigham young and Jerald’s (r.i.p.) ancestory worked along side joseph smith in 1830 so one would have to ask why turn down the glory to do what they do now?.They are not wealthy by no means and most of the books they do sell only help cover the cost of publishing and misc bills.Sorry,you can’t try to use money as a motive. They have a excellent book most hated but undefended by the L.D.S. church called ‘mormonism: shadow or reality?’. get it if you really want to know what the church is all about.God Bless.
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Don’t worry, the people who published this are not to blame, Hollywood is to blame (of course anyone who believes what the movies tell them is of questionable intelligence in the first place) Hollywood made it a Satanic symbol due to the relationship between pagan usage (pagan here includes things practiced in ancient Greece and Egypt for simplification)
Pythagorean followers used the symbol to identify each other much like schools use ID cards. It was also a symbol of the union of man and woman which as many know Mormons get married in these temples.
Many Christian (and yes I say Christian because the name of the Mormon church is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) religions not only use Pagan symbols (such as the non pentagram five pointed star, the trident (once a symbol of power, now the devils tool) but they also use pagan holidays. Halloween was originally Samhain, the day when the dead returned to earth. Christmas was set on the day of the winter solstice (once again check your sources, the winter solstice has changed in these past thousand years or so)
Anything is satanic if you want it to be. My only problem is that people no longer check their sources. They only use the ones that say what they want them to. Until these people are ready to be responsible journalists they should not be taken seriously or waste our time
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Pilgrim, I would like to respond to your note about how nobody has attacked you on your article on Joseph Smith’s false prophecies. We have no need to defend him for you are not going to change our faith.
Are prophets not also mortal? By definition, being mortal is being imperfect and since he was the first prophet of our dispensation things may have become muddled over time. Have you not ever said something that was taken in a way that you did not intend to or suffer from “foot in the mouth” syndrome?
You mention how we have changed. Has not every faith since time began changed as they gained more knowledge and understanding?
I agree with Corin, do your research, ALL of it, before you butcher a religion whose sole purpose is to spread joy. Because of my religion I know that I will see my grandfather again and I know that my friend will see her daughter again. We give hope to people. Can you say the same?
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Mary:
Yes, prophets are humans and may say and do silly things from time to time, but when they speak for the Lord (and it’s recorded as Scripture) then what they say must be weighed in light of the Bible.
And when the meaning of their words are later “changed” by the organization because those words become unpopular and changing them becomes politically expedient, then there’s something to be suspect about.
Furthermore, when a prophet speaks as Scripture and those things don’t come to pass, then he is a false prophet:
But the prophet who speaks a word presumptuously in My name which I have not commanded him to speak, or which he speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die. You may say in your heart, “How will we know the word which the LORD has not spoken?” When a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the thing does not come about or come true, that is the thing which the LORD has not spoken. The prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him.
– Deuteronomy 18:20-22
Even Mormons understand this verse, except when it is Joseph Smith who spoke false prophecies. Then all of a sudden the exceptions and excuses come flowing like a river.
And this “joy” you speak of LDS spreading is superficial. Mormons are under tremendous pressure to appease their God since they must work for their salvation. Wondering if you’re ever good enough brings not joy, but great stress. And if you’re at least honest with yourself, you’re familiar deep down with that lifelong gnawing of your soul that is difficult to endure at times . . . “am I ‘good’ enough?”
This along with the mountain of errors, lies, deceptions, and falsehoods of LDS has caused many to abandon the organization (like Runtu for example).
And what about all that “joy” that LDS has spread to the countless women and children who have suffered from the “everlasting covenant” of polygamy–the prophet Joseph Smith’s “revelation” from God?
And what about the “joy” of the 120 men, women, and children murdered because of LDS prophet Brigham Young’s “scripture” of Blood Atonement?
And what about the joy of all those Mormons who are suffering in Hell because they followed a false Christ?
There is much anguish in the end for those who have been deceived.
And before you try using the old “before you butcher a religion” as a defense, remember, Joseph Smith and the original LDS organization attacked Christianity first. Anything we say today is in defense of your organization’s attack.
I don’t expect to change your views, but I do refuse to waiver from sounding the alarm and warning others about any organization that preaches another gospel which originated from Lucifer disguised as an angel of light.
True Christianity is based on the fact that salvation is in Christ and Christ alone–that none of our works, nor any organization, nor any “prophet” or “pope” or even “angel” can provide this salvation, otherwise Christ died in vain.
– The Pilgrim
P.S. I see you agreed with Corin. I would hope so since you guys share the same computer, ISP address, and e-mail. Are you two people or one?
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i have had an influence of the satanic occult in my life. and i am wondering, how to break the chains of the occult , i was briefly involved i was wondering if anyone haping to gaze apon my article that reads this and has breaken the ties for some unknown betryal reason??????????????????????????????????????????????
how do severe the ties completely….. is it possible… or atleast a slight modest level of betral????? and breaking a pact with them like a gangs pacts??? would it mean your life
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Butterfly,
I have felt demonically attacked before. I have been delivered of constant thoughts of self mutilation and confusion. It is no joke. I am not crazy. I was delivered by the prayers of the saints. (I mean real live church going, Bible reading people who visited me and prayed for me.) The days of peace that followed were amazing. I was like so THIS is normal! I have no doubt I was descending into madness, into hell, but now, I have joy and peace.
I am not sure that you are talking about spirtual danger or a physical one. Are you afraid of people or demons?
If it is people, the Scripture encourages us that we must fear the One who has the power to destroy our souls, not to fear those who only have power over our bodies. ( G’d alone has power over your soul. Satan would like us to think he has this power, but he does not.) This does not mean we needlessly expose ourselves to danger.
Islam has some very Satanic beliefs and one is that they advocate killing apostates as those who have betrayed the faith. There are many who have converted to Christianity who do not openly declare it. This is wisdom, not cowardice, and not betraying the Lord.
At some point, they will feel lead to testify to Jesus’ power to forgive sin and to his power to help us lead holy lives. When the Spirit leads them to declare his power before men, they must NOT then deny Christ, even at the cost of their life.
Look to Jesus as an example, he did not make a habit of announcing his role as Messiah or that he was G’d’s son or that he would be sacrificed for men’s sins, he only did this publicly when it was time for him to sacrifice himself. (Please understand Jesus was a blood sacrifice to pay for our sins. The sacrificial system was only to point the way to the one who would eventually come and crush the head of the Serpent.)
Jesus did not announce himself before his time because this would have resulted in an immediate stoning. He knew the right times and the right people to declare himself to and behaved wisely until the time of laying his life down and purchasing our souls came. That is what he did with his blood, he redeemed us, bought us back from the enemy!
You were bought with a price friend–the lifeblood of the Son of God. Your life therefore is not your own. Do not be lied to by the father of lies. He didn’t buy your soul from you in exchange for anything, and you couldn’t have sold it to him —for either it was bought with the blood of Christ or Satan already owned it anyway. (and whatever he “gave” you in exchange didn’t belong to him anyway.)
This is a trick to make you feel like you owe the devil something. We owe him nothing. Jesus himself stood up to receive the accuser’s (Satan is known as the accuser.) accusation of our guilt and to take the just punishment of G’d’s wrath in our place.
On demons. Their power is real and one ought not mock them or toy with them. Unfortunately, I have done both in the past. But likewise one born of Christ, covered in his blood cannot fullly fear them, for that demonstrates unbelief in the power of Jesus. (We can be careful or wary.) Scripture teaches that those bought with the blood of Christ will someday judge the angels. (Don’t make too much of this, but it lets you know your final position in the eyes of G’d.)
A demon is only a fallen angel. An angel is a messenger or servant of God. They are created beings, not omniscient, not omnipresent and certainly not omnipotent. Satan himself was one of these beautiful creatures, but he is just that –a creature. (limited, finite)
One MUST know that God is infinitly MORE than Satan or any who serve him. HE is ALL of the “omnis”- meaning he is all powerful, all knowing and present everywhere at once. (He is NOT a created thing, and therefore is ungoverned by creation.) Rest in that knowledge. Read the Bible, fast, memorize Scripture and pray.
You speak of betrayal. But your words are confused. The devil loves confusion. I warn you, when you become confused, stay calm and call out to the Lord. Stay focused on the Word of God and calm cool logic. G’d expects us to love him with our MINDS, not just our hearts or acts of will. Be right minded. If your brain has malfunctions (obsessions, paranoias, violent thoughts) assert the power of your spirit and mind over it. Pray the Word of God over your mind and brain to heal it. The brain is amazing and it can heal itself if it is redirected. (neurons can be caught in repetitive loops) but rest assured new connections can be made. The brain can heal.
You may not be able to do this alone. We need bleivers to pray over us. Make sure that you go to a church that not only teaches the Bible correctly, but also believes in the POWER of the Holy Spirit. Unfortuantely, these two things do not often go together. Avoid churches with silly displays of power or charisma that do not carefully teach the Word of G’d. Good teaching requires a right veiw of man (that he is wicked and completely unable to save himself) and A right view of G’d. (G’d is completely soveriegn, meaning He is totally in CONTROL.
Think logically, How can you have betrayed the betrayer? Satan cannot be betrayed by you because he did not create you, he does not love you and he does not and never did own you, much less did he ever die for your soul. You owe NOTHING to Satan.
No, in the spiritual realm you are either a betrayer of God or a worshipper of God. There is no doing it half-way either!! You are either one or the other. Half-way could be a sign you are about to change from one to the other. But that halfway will not last. You will end up one way or the other. Not that we don’t fall back into sin. Just that you won’t be on the fence for long. REPENTANCE IS CONSTANT. Any church that does not teach the need for constant repentance is unsound.
Satan, if he cannot get you to worship him will be happy if you just don’t worship God. Worship God constantly, Read his Word –the Bible all the time, Pray unceasingly.
Spiritual battle is difficult. There is all sorts of bad teaching and practices, that are phony or unwise, but you are safe with reading and meditating on and memorizing Scripture. Singing praise songs and pleading with Jesus to be cleansed by his blood and covered by his wings. The Merciful One will hear your prayers. It is amazing. I have been delivered of constant thoughts of self mutilation. Very debilitating condition I assure you. I am free. Oh by the way anything you can do to practice self discipline is good. Excersise, serving others, keeping organized, study, learn a new subject, practice self discipline by seeking to bring Glory to God in all the earthly things you do.
Butterfly, don’t let anyone force you out the cocoon. The struggle must be yours alone. God will use the struggle to make your wings STRONG! Rest after struggling under his mighty wings!
Journeyman
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Sorry to hijack this thread. However, this Butterfly is representative of many who are caught in the occult and I thought it important to respond.
May I share my testimony. My husband is a quiet man. I am loud. I had overpowering feelings for him when we married! I burned with passion. For quite a few years I thought I loved my husband, but then, I realized I only loved a personality that I “thought” belonged to my husband.
After 20 years I realize he is actually quite a different person than the fellow I thought I was marrying!! Many of the things I was doing to please him actually annoyed him. Further, he had tried to tell me this, but I was too busy talking and working and too self absorbed to notice. Love in actuality, is quite different from a burning in the bosom. True intimacy is not just physical, it is deep knowledge of the other person. Arguably, physical intimacy (doing) isn’t genuine unless you have the other kind (knowing) FIRST.
We are all we can see. We are all we know. G’d’s Holy Word is all we have to teach us of who He is. If an overbearing woman can make this mistake with a quiet husband, cannot we as humans make the same mistake with G’d? He is what He is. No opinion or feeling of ours no matter how eloquent or powerful will change the nature of G’d. We cannot determine this nature by “feeling.” We must LISTEN to his Word. His revelation, being his only Words to us, must be studied carefully, so we can love him aright.
So it is possible that Mormans or anyone else can be worshiping a god of their own creation, without even realizing it. This is why TWO commands of the Ten deal with false gods. (Did you ever question why that was?) One forbids worshiping OTHER gods, the other forbids CREATING an IMAGE of the Living God. This image may be physical or in may be conceptual. Our tendency is only to see idolatry as a physical graven image, but idols can be concepts, ideas, even feelings that displace the worship of the Creator, the One who was not Created.
Idolatry was the reason G’d finally disowned Israel and issued a writ of divorce and removed her from the promised land. We should take guard against idolatry. Anyone who takes offense to being questioned sternly about idolatrous behavior should be regarded with suspicion. I welcome such questioning and I NEED it. It is called accountability. Christians should hold each other to account. This is not hatefulness, it is LOVE.
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I won’t debate any of the issues raised on this thread.
Rather, I will raise my own.
Necromancing, which is exactly what Joseph Smith (and many if not all Mormons) do. It is a practice condemned by Holy Scripture.
And do any of you Mormons care to explain through Holy Scripture just how you can baptize dead people? O.o
One last thing…
Why did no one post a single word about what is known as the ‘Star of Solomon’?
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Since LDS believe that it is essential for someone to be baptized in order to enter the straight gate, it is neccessary for everyone to be baptized by that proper authority. And now to answer your question on the baptizing dead people issue. Since it’s not a good idea to sneek in cemeteries and dig up dead bodies and baptise them, we usually have someone who is related stand in for them by what is called proxy. Since you can’t baptize a dead body someone else has to do the ordinance for them. And of course, if you believe in an after life, the people who the ordinance is being done for will always have the free agency to accept the ordinance that has been rendered.
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Clay Pendleton,
“And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment” (Hebrews 9:27)
After we die, we are judged by God and sent to either Heaven or Hell, based on said judgment.
What exactly does baptism do at this point?
Is the condemned removed from Hell? Is Hell made “less hot”?
Is the saved made “more saved”?
Nope. The Bible is clear: when you’re dead, it’s too late for ANYTHING except judgment and sentencing, to be unchanged for all eternity.
Tony Warren summed it up well:
“…why would we need their intercession for us from the grave? Did not Christ atone for “all” of our sins? Is He not the ultimate intercessor, who, by His suffering, redeemed us from all unrighteousness? So if we were saved before we died, then according to God’s word we do not come into any condemnation whatsoever.
And if we were not saved when we died, then the judgment is already appointed unto us. This judgment is not something which can be plea bargained down to something less that we can handle, it is divine justice which must be meted out. It is the full wrath of God which His righteousness demands. It is not only unbiblical to attempt to negate this, but it is illogical for a Christian to conclude that man should pray for those who have died, yet in their sins. For if they have any stain of sin yet to be purged at death, then after death is no opportunity to change the judgment thereof.”
Since, as an admitted LDS member you are not a Christian, then proxy baptism is merely fulfilling a requirement of your false religion, and has no ground in God’s Word.
In Christ Jesus,
– Jeff H
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1 Peter 3:18-20 : For Christ also hath one suffered for sins, the just for unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickend by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 4: 6 : For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirt. Paul commented to the Corinthians who did not believe in a resurrection of the dead and said: Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? Why are they then baptized for the dead? Even though you say that you believe and are a Christian – if we don’t follow the right path laid down by the Savior when we die we will all go to a waiting place known as the spirt world or to a place called Spirit Prision. If you have not been properly baptized by one holding the proper authority you will have to wait and hope someone down here on earth has received the fullness of the gosple to help you continue on your path. Straight is the gate and narrow is the way and few be that find it. It is good that you believe and have accepted Christ into your life but without a proper baptism, repentance and receiving the gift of the holy ghost which is essential, you will be in limbo status and waiting for someone to preach the everlasting gosple to you in the spirt world. One Lord, One Faith & One baptism. Christ is no respector to persons and if you never had the opportunity to have the true gosple preached to you here on earth you will have that opportunity there. But if you could not see it here what would make you think you would be able to accept it in the next life? Chances are that you would do the exact same thing you are doing now even if one of your ancestors tried to confront you and present you the true gosple plan. Don’t be blinded by so many worldly blind guides. If you want to know something about the LDS faith don’t ask anti people check it out yourself. I guess the only true way to know the truth is to pray and study it our yourself or wait until we cross-over to the other side.
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Dear Clay:
You said, “If you want to know something about the LDS faith don’t ask anti people check it out yourself.”
You assume that we only know of the LDS faith from non and anti-LDS sources. This is a common misrepresentation that Mormons level against those who challenge their faith.
I can assure you that much of what I know about Mormonism comes from actual LDS sources, writings, and documents. (E-bay has proven a great repository for old LDS literature.)
So don’t be upset with us for doing exactly what Mormonism has asked us to do, and please do not dismiss those who disagree with LDS doctrine with such prejudice. Some of us actually have studied your religion, and that is precisely why we are NOT Mormon.
Sincerely,
– Pilgrim
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Clay,
If you want to quote scripture then let’s talk about the fact that the only scripture is God’s Holy Word as it is uniquely contained in the 66 books of the Holy Bible.
It’s beyond pointless to argue about the method, mode, and meaning of baptism when you’re worshipping idols manufactured from the wicked and perverse heart of Joseph Smith, Jr. and trusting false revelations that directly contradict the only Word of God (the Holy Bible).
The One True and Living God of the Holy Bible declares that He alone is God, and there is no other. He declares that no gods existed before Him, and that no gods will be formed after Him, in fact He declares that He doesn’t even know of any other gods. God is omniscient meaning He knows all things perfectly. If He doesn’t know of something, then it doesn’t exist.
Beyond this, He declares that He alone made all things, and that all things that were created were created by Him. Since nothing could exist apart from Him creating it, and since He declares that no gods will be formed after Him there is, then, only one true God.
The One True and Living God has revealed Himself perfectly in the 66 books of the Holy Bible, and He declares that all men everywhere will either be accursed for their sinful rebellion against Him and be cast into hellfire forever, or else they will bow the knee to the Lord Jesus Christ by grace, through faith and be born-again as new creatures in Christ. Only those who are born-again will enter the kindgom of heaven on the grounds of Christ’s imputed righteousness through no merit of their own.
Those who would work to earn merit from God are found to fall short of His standard which is absolute sinless perfection, and they will be destroyed forever.
You must be born-again.
In Christ,
CD
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Heh… I noticed you skipped 1 Peter 4:1-5. Nice try at twisting Scripture.
“Therefore, since Christ suffered in his body, arm yourselves also with the same attitude, because he who has suffered in his body is done with sin. As a result, he does not live the rest of his earthly life for evil human desires, but rather for the will of God. For you have spent enough time in the past doing what pagans choose to do—living in debauchery, lust, drunkenness, orgies, carousing and detestable idolatry. They think it strange that you do not plunge with them into the same flood of dissipation, and they heap abuse on you. But they will have to give account to him who is ready to judge the living and the dead. For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to men in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit.” (1 Peter 4:1-5)
This Epistle is all about how to LIVE as a Christian, not how to treat the dead!
I shouldn’t be surprised that Mormonism can’t even get instructions on Christian living right.
So, when verse 6 says “For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead”… that means the Gospel WAS preached (past tense) to those who ARE NOW dead (present tense).
The Gospel was not preached to people already dead and buried.
Yawn… same tired old twisting of Scripture (again) being trotted out.
O.K. one good way to view this: In 1 Corinthians 15, Paul is talking to a Greek society in Corinth who believed (as Plato did) that “resurrection” was spiritual and not bodily. The Greeks understood a “resurrection” to being freed from the evil of the material world (from physical matter).
Paul corrected their misunderstanding of the reality of Christ’s plan, which was that the resurrection would be bodily as well, otherwise why bother getting bodily baptized.
More importantly, if the rite was a legitimate part of apostolic teaching, why did the apostle Paul say: “Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? Why then are they baptized for the dead?”.
Why did he not say: “what shall you do?” or “what shall we do?”
Finally, NEVER build a theology from a single verse (especially one ripped out of context). Use good hermeneutics.
NOW, with the proper framework, re-read Paul’s message:
“But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are to be pitied more than all men.
“But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.
“Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death. For he “has put everything under his feet.” Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.
“Now if there is no resurrection, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them? And as for us, why do we endanger ourselves every hour? I die every day — I mean that, brothers — just as surely as I glory over you in Christ Jesus our Lord. If I fought wild beasts in Ephesus for merely human reasons, what have I gained?
“If the dead are not raised, “Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die.” Do not be misled: “Bad company corrupts good character.” Come back to your senses as you ought, and stop sinning; for there are some who are ignorant of God — I say this to your shame.” (1 Corinthians 15:12-34)
Clay, you never answered the basic question that I posed earlier: How can the dead hear and receive the gospel of Jesus Christ in the spirit world, and through proxy baptism performed for them on earth, attain eternal life in the presence of God?
Where is this in Scripture? Please tell us the Book, chapter and verse.
Again, where is this in the Bible? This sounds more like a bad movie than the Lord’s perfect plan of salvation. So, you’re telling me that if aunt Emma is my only remaining ancestor and the last thing I did on earth was spill gravy on her best table cloth (and am then shown the door), then I must sit in a ‘spirit prison’ until she “gets over it?”
If she stays miffed… and dies… then it’s all over for me! Ouch!
I get to spend all eternity suffering because of some gravy, my clumsiness, and my aunt who neglected her prune juice that day?!?
Clay, I’d rather keep my eternity in the Hands of the Sovereign God Who controls all things.
That’s right:
“Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.” (Matthew 7:13-14)
No. I did not accept Christ. Christ has accepted me. I received Christ… through repentance and faith. He saved me.
Are you sure that’s enough stuff to do to get saved? I mean, maybe the list of stuff to do might be longer, ya know?
NO. Anything I or any other fallen, sinful human being might try to add to my salvation robs Jesus of His glory AND IS BLASPHEMY!
You keep running on your treadmill of works-righteousness, while I rest in Christ’s finished Work on the cross.
Are you serious? Where is all of this drivel in the Bible, my Mormon friend?
I have God’s Word, the Holy Bible, to keep me from being duped by the likes of a charlatan like Joseph Smith or his satanic LDS cult.
I travel a lot for my job. Whenever I stay at a hotel, one of the first things I do is check for a copy of the blasphemous BOM and toss it in the trash where it belongs.
Clay, you need to flee from Satan and run to the arms of Jesus. Despite what JS said, you will have no second chance when you are dead. Then Jesus will turn to you and say: “Depart from Me… I never knew you.” Then you and JS will have something else in common… you’ll both be in Hell.
I’m begging you not to go, my Mormon friend!
In Christ (alone),
– Jeff H
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Boy, you sound mad! I’m sure glad your not doing the judging? You say that you would rather keep your hands in the control of a Sovereign God who controls all things and will allow God to do everything? Isn’t it enough that God sent his Son Jesus Christ to atone for your sins – as well as everyone else, including mine? Jesus, who was without sin, set the perfect example and was baptized by John. How much more need we to follow ourward ordinances that are essential? Christ died for us but he won’t force us to drink or make are beds. Even if works won’t save us we need to exerise our faith by doing. Even some of the children of Israel refused to look up at the serpent on the cross that Moses lifted up in order for them to be healed. God wants us to do somethings by ourselves – such as, just showing faith by looking? We still have to follow outward signs of obedience even if thoes signs won’t save us, they are tokens of our faith in Jesus Christ and the way back for each of us to enter the straight gate and into his presence. Outward ordinances such as baptism, exercise our faith and through continually repentance, which makes us accoutable to God, helps us to become like Christ. It’s true, works won’t save us but it is by our works, that we are judged, evil or good. We shall all stand at the bar of Christ and have the books opened and be judged according to our works even if Christ died for our sins? That is why we need to be baptized and to continue to repent of our sins? Once you accept Christ into your life you become accountable and through baptism and repentance you will be clean but if you accept Christ and refuse to repent you make God a lier – for no unclean thing can enter into his presence. You, and you alone will be accountabe for your own sins that you do not repent of. You call me a pagan follower but you are a follower of an old World Athanasius dogma that has existed since the council of Nicea. That is why most Christians won’t call us Christian because we are a Restored Gosple and not from some man made dogma of the past. When we cross-over I will be happy to teach you about the restored gosple of Jesus Christ and how it can help you move forward.
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Clay,
Nope. I call you “my Mormon friend” and you say I sound mad? Not so, I can assure you.
Actually, your imprisonment in the LDS cult deeply saddens me.
You misquoted me; what I said was: “Clay, I’d rather keep my eternity in the Hands of the Sovereign God Who controls all things.” I’m glad God has my eternity in His Hands. His Son took care of that at Calvary.
Yes, my Mormon friend, Christ is sufficient. So, why are you attempting to add to Jesus’ finished work on the cross?
No. Jesus died for those who are His.
You (as a Mormon) have the wrong ‘Jesus.’ Your ‘Jesus’ is just “a god’, and is the brother of the Devil.
Your ‘Father’ (Elohim) has not always been the Supreme Being of the universe, but attained that status through ‘righteous living’ and persistent effort. You believe God the Father has a “body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s.”, and that he had sex with Mary to produce ‘Jesus’. You have the wrong Spirit. You (as a Mormon) seek to become a God yourself.
You do not have the salvation of the Bible, and if you die in your sins you will be in Hell. It takes much love (not anger) for me to tell you this. I say again: I don’t want you to go there!
Yes, but you’ve added a cumbersome list of works to ACCOMPLISH salvation. Salvation is a free gift from God.
Huh?
You’re getting a little closer here to the truth… We bear the fruit of — we demonstrate — our salvation through our works.
Faith, not a work.
You are now close to being labeled a heretic of Mormon doctrine!
Read the Bible and ask yourself: Is salvation by faith alone, or by faith plus works? Am I saved just by believing in Jesus, or do I have to believe in Jesus and do certain things?
Erwin Lutzer has a good description of the judgment of Christians:
“Romans 14:10-12 says, “For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat…so then, each of us will give an account of himself to God.” Second Corinthians 5:10 tells us, “For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.” In the context, it is clear that both scriptures are referring to Christians, not unbelievers. The judgment seat of Christ, therefore, involves believers giving an account of their lives to Christ. The judgment seat of Christ does not determine salvation; that was determined by Christ’s sacrifice on our behalf (1 John 2:2) and our faith in Him (John 3:16). All of our sins are forgiven, and we will never be condemned for them (Romans 8:1). We should not look at the judgment seat of Christ as God judging our sins, but rather as God rewarding us for our lives. Yes, as the Bible says, we will have to give an account of ourselves. Part of this is surely answering for the sins we committed. However, that is not going to be the primary focus of the judgment seat of Christ.
At the judgment seat of Christ, believers are rewarded based on how faithfully they served Christ (1 Corinthians 9:4-27; 2 Timothy 2:5). Some of the things we might be judged on are how well we obeyed the Great Commission (Matthew 28:18-20), how victorious we were over sin (Romans 6:1-4), and how well we controlled our tongues (James 3:1-9). The Bible speaks of believers receiving crowns for different things based on how faithfully they served Christ (1 Corinthians 9:4-27; 2 Timothy 2:5). The various crowns are described in 2 Timothy 2:5, 2 Timothy 4:8, James 1:12, 1 Peter 5:4, and Revelation 2:10. James 1:12 is a good summary of how we should think about the judgment seat of Christ: “Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him.”
Are you asking me or telling me?
I don’t accept Christ… Through repentance and faith I RECEIVE Christ, and He has accepted me.
No. Christ paid for all of my sins… past, present, and future… once for all time.
No, Jesus is my Lord and Savior, and I read and follow His Word – the Bible.
Nope. You are not Christian because your cult has distorted the Word and the Nature of God.
If you are not saved through repentance and faith in the Jesus Christ of the Bible – ALONE, you will be in Hell.
If you are saved through repentance and faith in the Jesus Christ of the Bible – ALONE, you will repent of and LEAVE the LDS cult…
Then you and I can spend eternity with Jesus, glorifying the true God… the God of the Bible… and there will be singing and rejoicing in Heaven!!!
In Jesus,
– Jeff H
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Before you start singing and rejoicing about your heavenly reward you will first have to be taught the true gosple of Jesus Christ. For God is no respecter of persons and he that worketh righteousness is accepted with him. All of God’s children must first have the opportunity to accept the gospel of Jesus. Who is to say who is going to Hell or to Heaven without showing mercy? There are many people who have lived on this earth and have not even heard the name of Jesus Christ? My God that I believe in is not the vengeful God that you interpret him to be and would not want any of his children to be cast out and sentence to an everlasting hell.. People can not be saved by the grace of God in total ignorance but must be taught the true order of things so they can be justified for his mercy. For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churchs of the saints. 1 Corinthians 14: 33. There will be a time when everyone will know by the bending of the knee and the speaking of the tounge that Jesus is the Christ – The Son of the Eternal Father. But that day will not come until everyone has had the opportunity to accept his gosple and know of his mercy. Jesus Christ is the only one under heaven who has been given the authority from God to judge – not born again bible thumpers that think that they lay claim to know who the true Christians are? LDS believe that everyone who has ever lived on this earth or has had a chance to come to earth but may have died young will be resurrected – For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But before man will be resurrected everyone must have had the opportunity to hear and accept the true and everlasting gosple. Even murders and whoremongers will be resurrected but theirs will be a resurrection to a more corruptable state as if one star differs in glory from another star. The hell I believe in is the knowledge of knowing you could have had something much greater. Paul said and how are the dad raised up? and with what body do they come? But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body. There are also celestial bodies and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. There is a glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. Having a knowledge of what you could have had but chose not to follow, This is the Hell I believe in. Oh by the way you left out some good faith & works scriptures found in James 2: Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, thou hast faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. And in Revelations: John is not just talking about the rightous being judged? 20: 12-13 Every man is judged according to their works not just the rightness? Where is your justification when you say you can sin no more because of Christ and you don’t need Christ’s works to be saved and justifyied? You are deceiving yourselves as well as many others. This is a great misinterpretation of scripture that has been going on since the fall of the early christian church.
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Clay,
The singing and rejoicing was if you would get saved… not over my rewards. Do you twist my words intentionally, or do you have difficulty understanding what you read?
By a Mormon?… uh, surely not.
Actually, Clay, none of us deserves Heaven… We’re all deserving of God’s wrath in Hell.
Your god can’t send people to Hell because he doesn’t exist. The God of the Bible is quite different from the Mormon idol.
We are commanded by the Lord Jesus to preach the Gospel… but, sadly, most will reject it — as you are currently — and will be in Hell (where we all deserve to be, really).
“Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” (John 3:3)
Try reading that Bible you are scoffing at, Clay.
Yes… some to eternal life and some to the second death.
Yes, Christians are resurrected to eternal life… Mormons (and all of the others who die in their sins) will go to Hell.
The Gospel HAS been preached to the ends of the earth and Lord Jesus can come at any time (hopefully soon!!).
🙂
No… Again: Those who die in their sins will go to Hell.
You believe wrong. Read the Bible.
Paul is talking about the fact that our eternal bodies are different from the composition of our earthly bodies.
That’s all. Don’t try to build a theology out of this, Clay.
AGAIN: You believe wrong. Read the Bible.
Old, dead argument. Already covered.
It’s REVELATION — not RevelationS… Just one Revelation.
This is usually a dead giveaway that the person has no idea what they’re talking about.
“And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done.” (Revelation 20:12-13)
Again, Erwin Lutzer summs it up beautifully:
“The second judgment is that of unbelievers who will be judged at the Great White Throne Judgment (Revelation 20:11-15). This judgment does not determine salvation, either. Everyone at the Great White Throne is an unbeliever who has rejected Christ in life and is therefore already doomed to the lake of fire. Revelation 20:12 says that unbelievers will be “judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.” Those who have rejected Christ as Lord and Savior will be judged based on their works alone, and because the Bible tells us that “by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified” (Galatians 2:16), they will be condemned. No amount of good works and the keeping of God’s laws can be sufficient to atone for sin. All their thoughts, words and actions will be judged against God’s perfect standard and found wanting. There will be no reward for them, only eternal condemnation and punishment.”
And — let me guess — Joe Smith got it right?
Unplug yourself from the filth the LDS is pumping you full of and READ YOUR BIBLE!
In Lord Jesus,
– Jeff H
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Well Jeff, it looks as though you have really got your salvation all rapped up! Though in the final analyses I feel many will be surprized of there outcome? Until people can exercise true humility with full purpose of heart and a with a contrite spirit they will never see the truth even when presented. Paul saw his day dawning as well as ours and said – People would be ever learing and never able to come to the knowledge of truth. Because their hearts would be withdrawn from the truth. As early as Paul’s time people were beginging to twist the words and distort the true gosple message. It is Jesus Christ who will determine who is contrite of heart and who is part of his true fold, not words coming out of the bible. Even Christ’s disciples who criticize people for trying to perform simular acts, that they were directed to do and without the proper authority given, were given an example to go by and without judgement by the Master: He replied, Those who are for me are not against me – and left it at that. I feel many who thought they had it truly made in this life will be quite surprized when they cross-over to the other side including yourself. One of us is giving a false testimony and we will surly find out sooner or later won’t we?
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so many people have not come to the knowledge of the truth that salvatoin is by faith alone and not works.
So many people have not come to the knowledge of the truth that Jesus is God.
So many people have not come to the knowledge of the truth that Jesus is not a created being.
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Exactly, You see what I mean……..
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Clay,
No. Jesus has taken care of my salvation… 2000 years ago at Calvary.
Clay, I think you misunderstood Shane.
Do you know the truth that Jesus is God?
Do you know the truth that Jesus is not a created being?
Do you know the truth that salvation is by faith alone and not works?
Shane does, and he is a brother in Christ.
If you don’t know these truths, Clay, you are lost.
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Of course I do….Christ is my brother as well – But I believe he is not God the Father as many of you believe him to be – and I already know that you know this…and that you don’t believe in the Trinity as we do… We do believe that Christ is the Father of us in a sense that he was Jehovah of the chosen people of the Old Testament and was in spirit then but came down in flesh as the Son of God. We don’t believe that God came down to earth and became Christ as the Nicene Creed states. That would mean that no one was home while God was away on earth? Why would God pray to himself, if he was God the Eternal Father? Christ said that he was only about his father’s business and was not carrying out his own will? How can he sit on the right hand of God if he is God and command Judgement upon people if God the Father gave that assignment to him? I believe that he is his God’s Son as you are a son of your earthly father. You are just interepreting it different than from me.
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The Mormon ‘christ’? He doesn’t exist.
Well, there’s the answer to why the rest of the theology of your posts are flawed and confused: you have the wrong Jesus.
He is not the Father.
Until you understand Who each Person if the Trinity is, there is no point in trying to correct your bad theology.
Christ was doing the will of the Father on this earth in submission to Him. That’s it. He was no less God than the Father, but Jesus nevertheless submitted (willingly) to the will of the Father.
Answer me this:
1) Who is the Father, the one you call ‘Elohim’? Was he once a man? Does he have a physical body? Was he always a god? Did he live on a planet near the star kolob? Did he have sex with Mary?
2) Who is the Son? Is he a man who is the brother of the devil? Did his plan of redemption win over that of his brother the devil in a contest?
3) Is the Holy Ghost a male personage?
4) Do you have the potential of becoming a god?
5) Are there many gods?
Thanks for your answers to these vital questions,
– Jeff H
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Oh…but he does believes in you…but you won’t even recognize him when you see him because of your bad theology training. That’s why people who don’t know the true nature of God will be asked to depart – for in life you never knew me, so I don’t know you? What is the point of discussing any doctrine when you have been polluted by man’s doctrinal wisdom. I am not an offical spokesman for the LDS Church so if you desire to know more about some of these important questions why don’t you call some of the LDS Missionaries to come by your home and have a pleasant chat? Perhaps your afraid you may be converted?
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Don’t you care enough about your soul in eternity to know about the nature and plans of God?
Frightening!
“Little children, you are from God and have overcome them, for he who is in you is greater than he who is in the world.” (I John 4:4)
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It’s not my soul you should be concerned over but yours – Now thats Frightening! A born-again bible thumper converted to the LDS faith!
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Since I have been eternally saved by my Lord Jesus Christ, the satanic LDS cult cannot touch me or my salvation.
Clay, you’ve never answered any of my questions, you’ve done little but sling mud and twist Scripture, and you continue to spew the filthy lies from your Mormon cult.
I think you’ve abused the grace here long enough. Why don’t you move on to another platform.
I’ll rest in the Lord Jesus Christ and His Word, and you can rest in that polygamous pedophile Joe Smith and his books of witchcraft. Keep your man’s peepstone. The true God reveals the end from the beginning FLAWLESSLY because He WRITES history.
The BOM is not the “most correct book”, it is the “most CORRECTED book.”
In Jesus,
– Jeff H
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What are you talking about? I feel that I have spent plenty my time amusing you guys on your website of false misinformation!!! Pagan, Satanic, Website what a way to spread the love of Christ? You already know what you want to hear. All you just want to do is give lip service to amuse only yourselves. Your like the Pharisees of old who tried to trap Jesus in his own words and lay a web of decite to twist the truth around for your amazement! You can’t thwart the Restored Gosple of Jesus Christ no matter how hard you try.
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Clay,
I am one of the editors on this site. I want to make it clear that our site is open to any who wish to know the truth and have sincere questions. However, you, on the other hand, make it very clear that you have no desire to know the truth. Your questions are definitely not sincere. You come with smoke and mirrors merely with the thought that you can convince somebody to the depravity of the cult in which you find yourself trapped.
At DefCon, we love Mormons but are sad to see so many millions duped by a man who was a false prophet, a liar, a thief, and an adulterer at heart and in action. No matter what spin you or the False Apostles of Mormonism say, your “restored gospel” has nothing to do with the Lord Jesus Christ of the Bible, Who is eternal God and Son of the Most High. A restored gospel that puts such absurdities as God the Father coming down and having sexual relations with Mary in order that she might give birth to Jesus Christ is heresy of the first order.
Thanks for stopping by though, and we will continue to share the truth of Scripture not of man-made books. If you desire truth, you are welcome to remain and bring questions. However, you will not be permitted to remain and leave comments such as you are doing.
Saved by grace through faith alone by Christ alone!
The Desert Pastor
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Its funny to see a Mormon getting so upset over the story about Jesus’ verbal combat with the Pharisees. The last time I checked, the Mormons still deny His identity as God, and part of the Trinity.
They came to my door a few years ago, with all sorts of stuff that had Jesus slathered all over it….Eventually they admit they don’t believe He is God…as Clay has done here….Yet much of their prozelytizing is dependant upon people’s confusion over that point. They buy credibility by acting like they’re a Christian Church, then slowly reveal their true beliefs.
So, every Mormon will typically walk in your front door, with a big smile, LYING to you. How can you believe anything they say?
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Actually, DavidH, they do believe in Jesus’ deity . . . and their eventual deity too. They also believe in your potential deity and my potential deity as well, if we become Mormons.
To them Jesus is just one of many gods who earned his godhood, just like God the Father who was once a man eventually became a god to rule over his own planet (earth) and inhabit it with billions of his spirit children through eternal, celestial intercourse (polygamy) with his many goddess wives.
I think you may have been confusing the denial of Jesus’ deity with that of Jehovah’s Witnesses, who strangely enough also believe in more than one god because they are the only ones to translate John 1:1 as “a god,” thus rendering themselves polytheists. Unlike Mormons, though, they staunchly deny being polytheists.
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Yes, you are right, Pilgrim. (Do they actually believe Jesus was God DURING His ministry on Earth?) I guess what I was thinking was that in a system where EVERYONE is a God, or potential God, then there is no God at all……They bring Jesus down to the level of a man…
I do believe it was JWs at my door that time (good catch), but both false religions borrow credibility from true Christianity by pretending to be followers of Christ, at first….
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Regarding the first post, concerning Mormon symbolism on the temple ( as this is the only one I could stomach) and the twisted book it solicits to sink further shadow into lie, I quickly googled the following: Revelation 2:9 and 2 Peter 3:14-18, and felt compelled to share it.
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