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To date there is no scientific study by any medical group or hospital or university that has proven social distancing is more effective than the the proven science of isolation of the infected patients and the highly susceptible due to prior medical conditions.
The masks except in hospitals by medical professionals have no oroven science of stopping the spread by uninfected. In fact it increases health risks. Further there is no proof that our immune systems are helpless to fight off this virus or any virus.
Overuse of antibiotics and other artificial measures weakened our God built in immune system. Isolation has caused as many ir more deaths than the virus. Repeating false information cant make it true. The computer model that caused this policy past and current have been proven false in every case.
Lastly im alarmed, knowing what happened to the Jews that we trustingly compliantly trust and obey anyone or any government authority like sheeple. Note the increased oppression aimed at religious liberty in countless examples.
In American we the people are Ceasar, we rule our rulers.
We can vote with our actions just like all other protesters.
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The simple point is if the government tells us to do it, then we do it. What do you think the world thinks about Christians and therefore about Christ throughout this pandemic? I have never been witness to more rebellion, ignorance and bull-headedness, than watching so called Christians react to the government. They will allow the gov’t to dictate what they teach in their schools, churches and what-have-you, but if the gov’t tells us to wear a simple mask, we stomp our foot and cry no! Sad state of affairs in the church, that’s for sure.
Hmmm, don’t think I can fully agree with you on this one brother. Consider this, and I do welcome further thoughts.
When Jews (some of my ancestors were Spanish Jews) were commanded to walk the path of wearing a yellow star, it was a quick route that ended in mass extermination. We could say that to wear the star was not immoral and those that refused were just full of “rebellion, ignorance, and bull-headedness.”
What if they decreed that all white European-heritage men had to wear a big white cross sewn crudely onto their clothes so that they could be the recipient of any abuse because obviously “all white European-heritage men are racist”? Or, what happens when all white European-heritage men are required to submit to vaccines that sterilize them and then get herded like cattle into interment camps? When does it stop?
Thankfully here in Wyoming, there is no law (along with several other states) that requires us to wear masks. In California where masks are required, the news announced that a decree was issued by the government whereby you can no longer sing in churches. Do you think there is no correlation and no mandate from the evil one to try and shut down the voices of freedom, and ultimately Christianity?
Now to clarify, brother, we have spoken quite a bit. I firmly believe that we have a responsibility to obey God first then to submit to the ordinances of man. I also have no doubt that we are but pilgrims passing through. However, this is more than being about a simple mask.
Looters, rioters, and anarchists are given free rein, but churches are not allowed to meet freely as before. Looters, rioters, and anarchists are allowed to do what they want in the name of Black Lives Matter, but woe to the Christian who takes a stand, or drives through a crowd unwittingly, or tries to defend their home, or __________________. All of a sudden, the Christian is the bad guy and is told, “JUST SUBMIT!”
The world does not care about Christians, nor about Christ. Wearing masks has nothing to do with the hatred, anger, bitterness, and vile depravity that is now open season against all that is good.
I look forward to hearing your thoughts.
You said…”Hmmm, don’t think I can fully agree with you on this one brother. Consider this, and I do welcome further thoughts.When Jews (some of my ancestors were Spanish Jews) were commanded to walk the path of wearing a yellow star, it was a quick route that ended in mass extermination. We could say that to wear the star was not immoral and those that refused were just full of “rebellion, ignorance, and bull-headedness.””
I agree that Christians, Jews, and other ethnic and religious groups have received much persecution in the past, however, that doesn’t take away from our God-given responsibility to submit to local and federal authority. We read in Foxe’s Book of Martyrs where every single Christian submitted to the authorities and allowed themselves to be arrested, put under house arrest, tortured, and eventually killed for the sake of the Gospel. The ONLY time we see a Christian put his foot down is when the law butts heads with the proclamation of the Gospel.
You said…”What if they decreed that all white European-heritage men had to wear a big white cross sewn crudely onto their clothes so that they could be the recipient of any abuse because obviously “all white European-heritage men are racist”? Or, what happens when all white European-heritage men are required to submit to vaccines that sterilize them and then get herded like cattle into interment camps? When does it stop?”
Then so be it. You see Mark, I have run across this attitude more often than not these last months, and it seems a very American attitude. The second amendment seems to have replaced the Bible. All I hear from Christians lately is my right,s my rights, my rights! Since when does a Christian have any rights? We have the right to go to hell if it were not for the grace of God. We have no rights, only responsibilities. When a Christian gets sucked into the secular whirlpool of “My rights”, we are dancing right along with everyone else in society and serving self rather than Jesus Christ. If I am forced to wear a cross to identify myself as one of those Christians then I will wear it with pride and honor knowing I represent the One who died in my place.
You said…”Thankfully here in Wyoming, there is no law (along with several other states) that requires us to wear masks. In California where masks are required, the news announced that a decree was issued by the government whereby you can no longer sing in churches. Do you think there is no correlation and no mandate from the evil one to try and shut down the voices of freedom, and ultimately Christianity?”
Thankfully? Do you realize what you just said? What if you replaced wearing of masks with the washing of hands? What if you replace wearing of masks with wearing seat belts? Don’t you see where you error in your mindset dear brother? It’s not persecution to wear a mask, but it will be persecution when the gov’t gets fed up with Christians being bullheaded brats. Then we will see persecution.
You said…”Now to clarify, brother, we have spoken quite a bit. I firmly believe that we have a responsibility to obey God first then to submit to the ordinances of man. I also have no doubt that we are but pilgrims passing through. However, this is more than being about a simple mask.Looters, rioters, and anarchists are given free rein, but churches are not allowed to meet freely as before. Looters, rioters, and anarchists are allowed to do what they want in the name of Black Lives Matter, but woe to the Christian who takes a stand, or drives through a crowd unwittingly, or tries to defend their home, or __________________. All of a sudden, the Christian is the bad guy and is told, “JUST SUBMIT!””
You are correct Mark. We are commanded to submit. It’s our responsibility in representing Christ Jesus in this earth to be beyond reproach. Those governmental authorities are put in place by God. Whether it be local or federal and any law they put in place has been ordained by the sovereign God we are supposed to obey. If the gov’t says we are to wear masks, we say okay. If the gov’t says we are not allowed to serve Jesus Christ, we say no. Jesus Christ Himself submitted to the authority of the land and allowed Himself to be killed. Paul submitted to being arrested and placed under house arrest and jail. Go down the line and every man of God who was persecuted and martyred for his faith, submitted to the authority that God put in place unless it went against his God-given command to preach the Gospel. Can we still preach the Gospel while wearing a mask? Of course! Can we still meet with like precious faith online? Of course. So what if the gov’t doesn’t want us to sing in a building? Big deal. Yes the Christian is the enemy and is deemed by a hateful and antichristian world as the bad guy. That has never changed and it will only get worse.
I truly believe that this is a testing period for the church. It’s my opinion based on Scripture that for the most part we are failing miserably.
Paul….although I agree with you in a lot of what you say….I think, for me, the difference is that in this country….our govt is put in place as a republic. That means the people have the supreme power…not the government. The govt telling us we can’t sing in a church….which is telling us how we can and can’t worship. We should still sing….all praise to Jesus! When the govt oversteps their bounds….we have a duty…as the people of a republic… to stand for our rights and the rights of our children…put in place 200 years ago…or we will lose the republic.
More I would love to say but my family and I are leaving for my nephew’s 3rd bday party!! 🙂
Just an FYI:
I wear a mask where I am required to by stores. My gym doesn’t require it and I refuse to wear one at the gym anyway. I workout too hard to be able to stand a mask on my face for that.
I would never yell at employees screaming for my rights. I am appalled that people do that.
Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord
He is trampling out the vintage where the grapes of wrath are stored
He hath loosed the fateful lightning of His terrible swift sword
His truth is marching on, His truth is marching
Glory, glory, Hallelujah! Glory, glory, Hallelujah!
Glory, glory, Hallelujah! His truth is marching on
I have seen Him in the watch fires of a hundred circling camps
They have builded Him an altar in the evening dews and damps
I can read His righteous sentence by the dim and flaring lamps
His day is marching on
In the beauty of the lilies, Christ was born across the sea
With a glory in His bosom that transfigures you and me
As He died to make men holy, let us live to make men free
While God is marching on
Glory, glory, Hallelujah! Glory, glory, Hallelujah!
Glory, glory, Hallelujah! His truth is marching on!
His truth is marching on! And on and on and on and on and on…
This is what the church of America should be compared to. Unfortunately, everyone thinks God is marching for them. From governments to hockey teams, we all think God is fighting for us.
Regardless of republics, democracies, and dictatorships, we are supposed to be pilgrims, not belonging to this world and striving for rights, freedoms, and the American apple pie mentality. Why cannot people see this?
To lay this on the line, I wear a mask, because it is the safe and healthy thing to do and because the gov’t has mandated it so. I aim to honor God in my submissiveness to the government THAT HE PUT INTO POWER, not by fighting for make-believe freedoms and rights.
The same government (employing the use of the state media) has been lying to its citizens every single day for longer than any of us have been alive, and Christians (who are supposed to be people of truth) never question it, even when the facts proving otherwise are abundant (like a 99% + survival rate, empty hospitals, releasing criminals from jail but arresting beauticians, demanding churches close while encouraging mob rioting, etc.). Those who can’t see the agenda simply aren’t paying attention.
We stick our collective heads in the sand and parrot the same lies and propaganda from our pulpits that spews from our television sets as the cannons are being turned in our direction by this same government, with nary a protest from us obedient subjects. (I’m afraid the coming persecution is going to come upon us sooner than even I anticipated.)
Mask? No mask? Your call, but the fact that Christians inherently believe everything their government says (while ironically ignoring when the government admits to lying) never ceases to amaze me.
“We’ll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false.” – CIA Director William Casey (1981)
So the question is, when are we going to stand up? At what point is the line crossed, the threshold breeched? When are we going to appeal to the doctrine of lesser magistrates? I suppose comfortable, entertained, and well-fed Laodiceans never will (which is the whole point of the bread & circuses).
As long as we vote harder (to elect a republican), make grand pageantry of our national holidays (to make us feel good), idolize soldiers killing innocents in faraway countries in unjust wars (because we’re only pro-life when it comes to babies), and make sure Old Glory is displayed prominently on our church stage (because we’re American Christians after all), then everything will be fine and we can sleep better at night.
Our problem is that our Christianity is so intertwined with our nationalism, nobody (ourselves included) can tell where one ends and the other begins.
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Throughout the entire New Testament, Christian character is described with words such as meekness, gentleness, long-suffering, submissiveness, peaceableness, etc.
Never are Christians described as being loud, brash, angry, resentful, arrogant, disrespectful, or belligerent.
What character is being shown to the world by professing Christians today?
Nationalism has nothing whatsoever to do with Christianity.
The vast number of mask decrees by governors are in violation of their state’s constitution and have the force of power but not of law. Just as Paul protested being unjustly whipped, we are free to protest unlawful decrees by politicians. Todd is off the trail on this. Good bye.
Unfortunately, ever since Friel took material from this blog without giving credit where credit was due and used as though it was his own material, my level of respect has never gone up. However, I digress.
I agree that the decision to wear a mask should be left to the individual. Manfred, the video you presented gives a good perspective that must be considered by people on both sides of the equation.
Paul, I think everyone here would agree that nationalism has nothing to do with Biblical Christianity.
Ultimately, our goal should always remain to be more like Jesus Christ today than we were yesterday, and more like Him tomorrow than we are today. Everybody is at different stages of their walk with Christ. A mandate that is being presented through force of power and not by law is not, in my humble opinion, something that is required in order to maintain a testimony before the world. If the wearing of a mask was that vital to the well-being, then it should be put into place by executive order of the President or passed into law by the Federal government.
At the end of the day, if our decision to wear a mask or not wear a mask is the determining factor of our fellowship with other brothers and sisters, then I fear that we have strayed a long way from Biblical Christianity.
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Reblogged this on Revival & Reformation.
I was thinking on this some more….and I wanted to add…that in this republic….the Constitution is our authority. It’s what the govt has to abide by (not that they always do). So….who do we truly answer to….the politicians or the Constitution which is our authority of this land? Who is the ultimate authority we submit to (under God)?
Paul, I have a couple sincere questions and this is not to be snide or anything…but truly,
if our govt requires us to get a COVID vaccine ~ will you get it?
Were Christians in Germany that hid Jews against the govt’s orders in sin?
I think the reason so many hold onto our “rights” is because our republic’s authority (the Constitution) grants them to us…so when people who are sworn to uphold that Constitution and those rights cross the line, they are the ones in sin. We have a different form of govt here than most places. So, when we hold to our rights….we aren’t truly going against the authority over us (the Constitution). If the politicians don’t hold to that authority…they are in the wrong…not us.
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See the next post for a video response to Todd.
I’m not certain which behavior of professing Christians you’d like me to address (for there are so many), but I would posit that one can resist tyranny without being brash and arrogant.
Instead of focusing on the few who aren’t handling this as you think they should, and labeling them as angry and resentful, maybe we’d be better serving those around us if we stood for truth against the lies . . . all lies . . . even when those lies come from the mouths of our favorite leaders, the pages of our history books, and the pixels on our big screens.
In the 21st Century some Christians are standing up against abortion (and being arrested . . . because of Covid). In the 20th Century some Christians stood up to the Nazis (and even broke German laws to hide Jews). In the 19th Century some Christians stood up to abolish the slave trade. And I’m sure they were all looked down upon by many of their fellow Christians whose attitude at the time is/was “just follow the government’s orders.”
So again, I return to the question of when do Christians stand up for truth during this Covid lie? We focus on masks and claim Christians SHOULD wear them, yet nary is there a mention about the ignored victims.
When do Christians stand up for those dying from old age alone in nursing homes because the Covid lie is preventing their family from being by their side? When do Christians stand up for the grieving widows and orphans who can’t attend their husband/father’s funeral because of the Covid lie? When do Christians stand up for the countless people who have lost all of their life savings because the government shut down their business and it is now lost forever, they no longer have an income to feed their family, and they will likely lose their homes next? When do Christians stand up to the Covid lie when someone (one of whom I personally know) is suffering as cancer is ravaging his body because the hospitals refuse to admit him to get treatment because of the Covid lie?
Why are these not the more pressing issues among Christians?
I do not know.
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At the risk of belaboring the point (or beating the proverbial dead horse), I will give everyone else the last word on this matter (if they so desire) and I will not comment any further. But I will conclude my dialogue on this issue with a quote, and a link to the article that quote came from.
Thank you for your patience in this discussion, and I apologize if anything I have said has caused any offense or stumbling to anyone, or if I have not spoken in grace.
From the article “An Open Letter to Todd Friel from a Military Officer”
“God is not worshipped by those practicing lawlessness or by those endorsing it. God is not honored by lame ascent to tyranny. People are not impressed by weak-kneed, feeble people going along with the crowd because the government said so. Standing up to tyranny, going against lawlessness, and looking out for the rights of others, even when they don’t or can’t for themselves, is more Christlike than the position you posit.”
…and Newsom just locked down CA again…shutting down churches, gyms and the like. But BLM protests of thousands upon thousands of people is ok. I must admit…if I lived in CA and was an elder of a church I would *not* obey the govt over this ridiculous mandate. I would worship the Lord at church and leave the doors wide open.
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You said: “I would *not* obey the govt…”
The Bible says, “Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.”
Now what. Katy?
When Paul was fixin’ to be whipped by a Roman soldier, he protested – he knew it was illegal. Most of the mask decrees by governors are contrary to their state’s constitutions and are no more legal than the whipping of a Roman citizen was. Now what, Paul? Quit being a disciple of Todd and THINK biblically.
Hence why I quoted Romans 13. What other verses would you like me to use Manfred? The ones that back your position?
If you think Romans 13 or 1 Peter 2 are absolute blanket commands to be followed without thinking you miss the teaching of Jesus, Paul, and Peter and Luke. You did not even address the argument I noted. I will have no more of your high-minded nonsense unless you converse like a human.
Then you please give me scripture where it tells the Christian that he has the right to disobey a law written up by the government of the land if it’s uncomfortable. Scripture please. It’s all I ask for. If you can provide me with scripture that teaches me that if a law is uncomfortable or burdensome for me, then I have a right to disobey it. Thank you Manfred.
I’ve already referenced one. Read.
Where Paul protested being flogged? That’s your proof? Honestly Manfred, your arrogance is appalling. Fine I sign off with the knowledge that some Christians want to be disobedient against scripture and some want to be honoring to God by being submissive. Have a good evening.
That is a clear example of an unlawful action by an agent of the government, protested as being illegal by the apostle. You think that is no support for a Christian to protest unlawful decrees by oath-trampling governors? If that is your position, I bid you farewell and wish to hear from you no more.
Brothers, at the end of the day, this is not a salvific issue.
There have been many arguments for and against the disobeying of lawful government down through the centuries when they pass laws that are contrary to Scripture. I can think of the Revolutionary War for example between the UK and the US colonies. There were true believers on both sides of the issue as to whether to continue to follow King George III or to disobey and declare war.
Personally and as a dual citizen of the US and the UK, I do have a very good understanding of the law in both countries. I believe that our form of government here in the US is quite different than that in Canada. In America, the people rule through elected officials. However, those officials are bound by the same laws as the general populace. The governors are not dictators, nor do they have supreme power to simply pass laws. The US has 3 different branches of government at the federal level as well as the state level.
Because many Americans have become sheeple, they have allowed the rule of law to be bypassed. A governor has no right, for example, to close houses of worship. Nor, can they dictate into law the wearing of a mask anytime you step outside of your home.
Brother Manfred, I believe that the situation that Paul was in was definitely unique. He was a Roman citizen, and in essence, the local government was passing a law that decreed the beating of Paul and Silas. The local government was wrong and Paul, in his role as a citizen, had every right to protest. When they were told to leave the jail by the authorities, they “rebelled” and “refused to obey” a “lawful order” because of their rights. This was not nationalism on display, but an acceptance of the rights already provided by the Roman Empire.
Brother Paul, I would share a word of caution on a dogmatic approach to this issue. If what you are saying is the only way to interpret the passage in Romans 13, then millions of true believers are living in contradiction to this passage. Behind the former Iron Curtain and the curtain that is found across places like China, Burma, throughout Southeast Asia, and of course, behind the Muslim Curtain, these dear saints should then simply submit to their governments and never try to meet. This is something that they would vehemently disagree with, and so would I.
This is about much more than the wearing of a mask. This is about the totalitarian dictatorships that are cropping up in America and it will continue to evolve into the removal of more freedoms from those who are true believers.
At the end of the day, we are brothers and sisters in Christ. When we stand before Christ, we will have to give account for our own actions, and not the actions of each other.
you said: “Now what Katy?”
I commented toward you in kindness and in discussion…you’ve turned snarky and unkind.
1st…you never answered my two questions.
And…correct me if I’m wrong…but didn’t Paul go to jail for continuing to preach Christ and Him crucified even though he was ordered not to? So…when I say I would defy the govt when they tell me not to go to church and worship the Lord (but allow protests)…then I stand by that claim. The civil govt does not have the power, under the Constitution, to tell us we can’t meet for church.
Will you also answer my question about the Constitution? If I am not disobeying it…then am I going against authority? If elected representatives of this republic are over reaching their power…they are in the wrong. You have avoided all my points.
Paul….you also said: “Then you please give me scripture where it tells the Christian that he has the right to disobey a law written up by the government of the land if it’s uncomfortable. Scripture please. It’s all I ask for. If you can provide me with scripture that teaches me that if a law is uncomfortable or burdensome for me, then I have a right to disobey it. Thank you Manfred.”
These are *not* laws we are disobeying. These are mandates from a govt that is being hypocritical and not aligning themselves with the Constitution. To ban the gather of worship but allow protests of thousands upon thousands….? There is a law making process and these aren’t laws!!
Katy, thank you for your thoughts. I have tried to address the situation a little bit in my own comment. Hope it helps.
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I will leave this site with the following comment.
I have noticed a trend in Christianity, even among the saints, and this trend has been slowly growing over the years. When I was a young Christian, I argued with others over the sovereignty of God. They would say He was sovereign, but not over man’s supposed free will. I would argue scripture and say that according to Isa. 45, Prov. 16, etc., the Bible makes it plain that He is supremely sovereign over everything. Then the nastiness would fly and we would part as enemies. Sigh…
Then came the tithing and Sabbath-keeping issues. Same result. Then came the Pope as Antichrist, and we would part arguing. I would ask for scripture, they would call me names.
Now this. I ask for scripture, you call me names. I ask for scripture, you treat me like a child who doesn’t know any better.
I have tried to be loving, patient, and understanding, but for the life of me, I cannot understand why a Christian would think that civil disobedience is honoring to God? I read where someone said, “I think that those who hid Jews and smuggled them out of Germany, who created a network of people to falsify documents, stole ration cards, etc, were obeying God and resisting tyranny.”
Honestly? And this comes from a Biblically saved Christian. Is this what represents the church today? If so, then we have fallen away from our first love and instead stood up and demanded God and the government respect our so-called rights and freedoms. As I said before, we as Christians, as pilgrims and slaves, have no rights but responsibilities. We have a responsibility to honor God in our daily lives. We have the responsibility to not be a stumbling block to other brothers and sisters. We have a responsibility to honor the government God put into place and submit to their rules, laws, and mandates, etc.
Yet, I see Christians striving to make the Bible agree with their ideologies rather than humbly submitting to the power of the Word and what it commands us to do.
Peter was rebuked for slicing off the ear of the servant when Jesus was being arrested. Paul submitted to house arrest and jail. James submitted to having his throat slit by Herod. The list goes on. Not one of those men, down through history stomped his foot down in obstinance and cried “NO!”.
Are Christians who break the rules of their governments for the “greater good” doing wrong? Yes. Their only defense is when the laws of the government butt heads with God’s Law (i.e. you are forbidden to preach the Gospel as in Peter and John’s experience in Acts 5). If they interpret Scripture (i.e. Romans 13, etc.) and think they have a blank cheque to fill out according to how they think the passage should be interpreted, they are usurping the majesty of God’s word and will be judged accordingly. It is wrong to make Scripture say what we want it to say. I didn’t think this was needed to be said, but apparently, it is.
Nonetheless, you will think I am high-minded, snarky, and proud in my comments and so I will sign off before I put any more fuel on the fire.
It has always been my desire to remain loving and understanding in any discussion, but unfortunately, this doesn’t seem the case on the other side of the table. I think some lessons in grace and humility are in order so that we as the church can adequately represent Jesus Christ to a dying world. As it stands, no wonder the world doesn’t want any part of Jesus.
It is our fallen nature that deludes us all into believing that our understanding is good is balanced is correct, that all who my point of view are in error.
Such thinking is devoid of humility.
I think that whatever cannot be done unto the Lord in faith is sin.
Romans 14 is about giving grace to those who differ with us