Anytime someone enters into a new culture it is important for them to understand the customs and even the language of that culture. Many cultures differ from ours and their words, terms, and expressions can hold entirely different meanings to them than they do to us.
It is for this reason that I’ve chosen to provide the readers of DefCon with the following public service to help everyone understand the new culture that is before us. So many times we come into contact with others on this blog who are from a world entirely foreign to ours. When you make a statement, the new wave of Laodicean Christians may define it very differently from how you understand it and meant it.
In order to avoid the confusion that would arise as a result of this, simply refer to this handy little guide when you are engaging those from Cultural Christianity.
What you mean
vs
What they mean:
Seeking after holiness = Legalism
Exercising Discernment = Judging
False conversion = Carnal Christian
Tolerating sinful behavior = Christian Love
Following Christ’s commands = Phariseeism
Exposing false prophets = Touching God’s anointed
Not following false prophets = You’re not spiritual enough
Tolerating lies, errors, deception, and heresy = Christian Unity
Hell = God would never send anyone to Hell, he is a god of love
God’s judgment and wrath = Not the god I serve, he is a god of love
Friendship with the world = Gotta be like them to reach them
Belief in the final authority of Scripture = Intolerant fundamentalist
Use of vulgarities and coarse language, being obscene and offensive = Hip and relevant; showing the world how real we are
~~~~~~~~~~
Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; Who substitute darkness for light and light for darkness; Who substitute bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter! Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes And clever in their own sight!
– Isaiah 5:20-21
Christ Alone Wyoming 
Outstanding !!
Thanks for that
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Well said, brother!
I got a feeling WOTMR is going to pick this one up as well.
Pilgrim’s on a roll and I’d better grab that autograph and picture with him at those low figures before they go up like pump prices! 😉
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Brilliant! May I translate this to Spanish for my blog?
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That was so right on target! Hope this gets out to more people so they understand what’s being said! I applaud you, Pilgrim!
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Don’t stop yet!!!
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Oh well said 🙂
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What would you do with Paul’s statement that he has become all things to all people so that by all means some might be saved?
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Dear Phil (aka The Citizen Cane):
Do you ask this question out of a genuine honesty to understand the text that you have referred to, or do you only ask to make the point that you disagree with the post?
I fear that the latter is the case based on your affiliation with Life Pointe Church (in which your brother, Travis, is currently the senior pastor), combined with my experience blogging. I am feeling that you are not looking for serious, open, and honest discourse, but I hope I am wrong, because I have absolutely no desire to “argue” with yet another seeker-friendly or emergent over their cutting-edge, new-wave, market-driven, pragmatic ideals to help God get people into Heaven.
Sincerely,
– The Pilgrim
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Pilgrim, my intention with the question was simply to try to make a point, not to argue. Life Pointe is a powerful group of believers who actively spread the gospel. The church is made up primarily of people who had either previously given up on church, or had never come to Christ prior to involvement with LPC. I pray that your church body and your personal efforts are also fruitful in kingdom growth.
LPC by definition is not an emergent church.
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Right on! I will be carrying this list with me from now on. so true. Citizen Cane I just had a look at Life Pointe Church. Just wondering do you all practise dying to self, taking up your cross, and dying daily
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Very good list. I actually love how I’ve met up with these exact same arguments when I talk about these points. Dead on.
Is this the Phil Johnson from Pyromaniacs Blog? Just curious.
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Dear Zach:
Thank you for your comment.
Phil Johnson is not a blogger on DefCon, but we do feature him under our Phil Johnson Link.
– The Pilgrim
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In response to Citizen Cane’s question “What would you do with Paul’s statement that he has become all things to all people so that by all means some might be saved?”
I think that you are definitely reading out of context with this verse. When you read before this verse, Paul talks about becoming a servant to all so that we may win more of them. He talks about relating with Jews, those under the law, and the weak. Then he talks about “I have become all things to all people, that by all means I might save some”. However, I highly doubt that Paul would “become” a homosexual or a homosexual sympathizer in order to reach out to homosexuals, nor would he purposefully sin to reach out to sinners. The things that he mentions Jews, those under the law, and the weak, aren’t referring to the tolerance of sin, but rather an extra understanding in order to serve them better. Paul was already of Jewish background so he understood where to push their buttons. He purposefully led a humble life of few pleasures in order to better understand the weak. When Paul says “I have become all things to all people, that by all means I might save some” he is not tolerating sin, but rather saying he is becoming a servant to all so that the gospel is spread. Its easy as humans to tolerate sin because we are already sinful, and it makes us feel better about our own sins. “We have followed too much the devices and desires of our own hearts.”
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That list should be made into a tract.
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Shane:
You have my complete permission.
;o)
– The Pilgrim
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Great translation! It would be funny if it wasn’t so sad. Ah, yes… Last night my purpose-driven, seeker-sensitive small group leader mentioned an acquaintance of hers who is a “legalist” (delivered sideways, lest I should take it personally) immediately after I strongly disagreed that to “Fear God” was the same thing as to “Love God”. Am I wrong?
I asked if the verse about not fearing those who kill the body, but fear Him who can throw you into hell could be changed and make any sense when replacing the word “fear” with “love”. When laughter broke out, I realized I had unintentionally shamed her publicly, though I don’t feel too terribly bad about it..
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If I might add a few more of what I have found in Laodicean reasoning:
Standing firmly on the Bible = “pride”
Ceasing to acknowledge the absolute, objective truth of the Bible = “humility”
Ceasing to resist, and turn to embracing Emergent teaching = “repentance”
Holding your Emergent pastor (or community group leader) accountable to the Scriptures = “sin of questioning”
Leaving an Emerging church = “rebellion”
Submitting unquestionably to the Emergent pastor = “denial of self”
Practicing the “spiritual disciplines” = going to the “next level” in one’s walk with Christ.
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Excellent article. I left a church over bad doctrine, mysticism creeping in, an ultra liberal pastor, and lack of church discipline (couples living together out of wedlock for years and a high divorce rate). When I explained to my mother the issues I had regarding doctrine, her response was that even if Jesus Christ Himself came to teach me His Word, He wouldn’t get it right either. Huh??
Any suggestions on how to explain to my mother why I can’t share my faith with her? She’s on the “what they mean” side and every attempt I make to protect my children and myself from false theology (whether on TV, on the radio, or from other people) is seen by her as a personal affront. Instead of being happy for us when we thought we had found a solid Bible-teaching church, she asked ‘Are you sure the Holy Spirit is there?’ This from a woman who attends IHOP on a frequent basis and who streams Chuck Pierce/Glory of Zion 24/7.
I have told her that I am/we are to ‘Test the spirits’ and she warned me I was blaspheming.
I have told her and my brother that the healing and abundant life Jesus promised us is primarily spiritual/eternal health and they say I have spirits of defeat and poverty.
What most people would call summoning spirits/casting spells/curses or witchcraft my mother and brother call our God-given duty to put all things under our feet/be overcomers.
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AbbyD,
You won’t be able to reason with your mother about these issues. You ought to pray for her – and yourself – and simply make the gospel (with emphasis on the biblical Christ) your answer. All these errors noted are symptoms of disbelieving the gospel.
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This is really good.
Thank you!
DavidW…..your additions are eerily familiar…. 😦
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Hello.
This is a very good discussion forum. I love the posts. People! We are iron…come… let us sharpen one another…bang! I adore it. For the glory and love of God… may He be proven true and every man a liar. Abby D. May I share something with you? I take it I can as this will be coming to you before hearing an answer…lol. Please forgive me if this is presumptuous. All too often we put limitations on how long something is good for… or relates to..etc. Example “honor thy father and mother”. There is no time limit on this command. It is not only good for as long as you are a teen and struggling to honor them. Side note – it is an early command with a promise attached to it. Anyhew…no matter how she interacts with you… no matter how erroneous her thinking seems… please remember that who God has given her to be for you has nothing to do with whether she is “batting a thousand” in her views. So before you consider what you share with her please consider why you share – how you share – 1 Ti. 5:1 /2 Tim 2 24-25 etc.
I do not doubt your intentions nor your legitimacy of frustration. I have often shared this and similar frustrations as being one who has pastored within “renewal” circles for years. While I understand that regardless of denomination or the lack thereof …there will always be that which is God and that which is man together… from Renewal to Baptist …to Lutheran… Missionary to Pentecostal…you name it… however I also know how frustrating something can be when we find it not to be endorsed via scripture. The pendulum of idea and practice usually swing too far in one way and then do so again in another to try and correct the original extreme with a new one. No matter the issue at hand Father has commanded that we interact … even throughout our differences of idea and practice… or even in standing up for the truth of God….against what we are sure is heretical – that we do this within His parameters that he has amply shown us in His gorgeous and immutable Word. Another note to realize is that David’s conduct with Saul was not because he was supporting Saul’s conduct in any way – but rather he tenaciously help onto the Lord’s original intent for- in and through Saul. He sought to honor God in honoring Saul. The agenda in God’s choosing of Saul originally – until god showed differently which eventually He did. But he affirmed it was within God’s pay grade …and not his to change what God had set in place. You can love , honor and respect….even protect what is due both her and God through your treatment of her…without it meaning that you agree with her. Ask God for how …be open for how He decides to show you…and then do as He leads. Even if it is to be silent and pray in the “for now” . May God’s incomparable beauties of grace and person be a strength and source of “enough” for you as you seek to honor Him in how you honor her. I believe in God in this situation… and I believe in Him through you. “You go” Abby D!
Pilgrim… please be careful on assumptions…. whether you know the person or not… otherwise they can prove embarrassing later. Even if you are correct… please be careful brother.
Grace, same thing… avoid carefully assumptions…please…from a pro at assumption… it can be painful… being careful to clarify first will also speak to your friend and perhaps win you more credibility in order to be able to speak into her life (not the same as the futility of trying to be a drunk to reach one). Showing to be a safe place can work wonders for affording you credibility. You are correct … it is not the same thing. Do a word search in the original language of the word fear in that verse that you quoted and then do likewise for the word love in “the greatest commandment” and see the difference. I recommend http://www.bible.cc for the process though there are many good others…. and when you bring up the verse then go to top on right and hit “lexicon” and read verses through. Astonishing. Or you could simply look up in the concordance ….lol. *Sheepish*. A good rule of thumb though is Phil. 2:3. I understand that there are things that we all have a commitment to the belief of… and we feel afronted when there is opposition to what we believe and hold dear. I came from a Pentecostal background and went to an Anabaptist founded bible college…so there was plenty of “dancing” on issues going on for the first 2 of my 4 years there. Then the Lord reminded me that the words of my mouth are given more credence by the life that I live and if I could not match them up then I could forget about being the “caped crusader” that I thought of myself as…. lol. *embarrassed chuckle*. Besides I later learned more about being pentecostal from my missionary mentor buddy that was based out of that Baptist upbringing… then I ever did from my own denomination. He simply lived his life as if someone walked along and dropped their bible and it fell open to second kings and he stepped out. Lived his life in the shadow of God and for HIS good pleasure. Crow eating time…lol. Oh how I love that man…. and God for giving him to me for that season.
Thank you all for letting me share and read your thoughts too. I love you all… and prayerfully hope for your best in Christ. May His heart find a friend in you all.
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I checked the Life Pointe Church web-site: they might be modalistic because they say they believe God ‘has eternally existed in three PERSONALITIES’. They may also believe in salvation by works becaue they state ‘Those ACCEPTING Christ repent of sin, confess their faith, and are baptized into Him ‘. .
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Interesting food for thought on the origins of this “new culture” we see emerging among the “emergents” and other movements. Fifty years ago, when I was a young boy growing up in the Assemblies of God churches, which were very intolerant of “worldly” denominations such as the Presbyterians and Lutherans, and of course the entirely apostate Catholics, I began hearing phrases such as, “why should the world have all the good music?” and “we must become like them to reach them”, and “we’ll reach the influential people at the top, and they’ll help us reach the others”. Now that sounds silly, but it was the first wave of the New Evangelicalism, which believes that God leaves it up to us to save people, and any methods we can come up with are good. I remember my Youth for Christ leader in high school passionately trying to convince us to go share he gospel with the football stars and the cheerleaders, because they would help us lead more kids to Christ than just the ordinary high school kids. No kidding, this is true.
This all relates back to the fact that we (the modern, affluent, evangelical churches) have completely lost touch with Christ and His desires for us. We use His Name in our advertising and marketing, but rely on Him for nothing. He is like a figurehead on the front of an old sailing vessel. There to ward off evil, and warn the world that our huge, modern, entirely self-capable ship is plying these waters, with its entirely self-capable and incredibly skilled crew, and that if they don’t want to be left out of all the Christian “coolness” they’d better get on board. However, actual complete, utter reliance upon Christ as all is long gone.
Like these remembered scenes from my childhood, the new movements are nothing but old tricks of Satan to lead astray the people of God into self-focus and grandiose religious schemes.
Many of us see through these, but we MUST speak out the simple gospel of Christ, and the obedience required of us. It is Christ who will act in the lives of people on His own behalf. Hopefully in the foxholes of the future, many of these “emergent” Christians will find that only the Resurrected Christ emerging in them will be the key to thriving in this war between good and evil.
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Well said and well done! Thank you.
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