Praying the Sinner’s Prayer on the Road to Hell??

As you watch this video, consider the verses and the testimonies of these men. Are you TRULY in the faith or have you believed a lie of the greatest proportions? Is your trust in something YOU did or something YOU prayed instead of in the finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ on Calvary?

HT: Perilous Times

11 thoughts on “Praying the Sinner’s Prayer on the Road to Hell??

  1. Some commentators might strongly oppose the request of the receipt of the Holy Spirit for the fact that the prophecy in John 16:7 pertaining to the receipt of the Holy Spirit should have been fulfilled in Acts 2 by the outpouring of the Holy Spirit during the Pentecost. They treat John 4:10, John 6:32-34 and Luke 11:13 to be applicable only before the day of Pentecost and all the events as mentioned in the book of Acts to be in transitional period and these give them the conclusion that the request of the Holy Spirit should be nullified currently. Discuss.

    The comment that, John 16:7 is applicable to Acts 2 in which the disciples received the outpouring of the Holy Spirit and the current practice of requesting of the Holy Spirit should be in vain, has been found to be unjustifiable in the Gospel for the following reasons:

    a) John 16:7 mentions that the Holy Spirit had to be descended upon the disciples when Jesus was glorified and it should have been fulfilled in Acts 2. However, neither John 16:7 nor any verses from the Bible does mention that the practice of requesting of the Holy Spirit should be abandoned after the outpouring of the Holy Spirit as mentioned in Acts 2. By asserting that the requesting of the Holy Spirit should be nullified after the day of Pentecost, is simply the act of making presumption in which it is not stated in the Bible. Or in other words, they simply add words of presumption that is not even stated in the Bible. We have been warned in the Bible not to abuse the Scripture by adding or subtracting words. Unless a verse or sentence has been stated clearly elsewhere in the Bible that requesting of the Holy Spirit has to be ceased or to be nullified after the day of Pentecost, it should then be rational to conclude that requesting of the Holy Spirit is redundant and not be to exercised in the future.

    b)Some commentators might suggest that the phrase, they were come down prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, as mentioned in Acts 8:15 to be the exceptional case with their presumption that this event should fall during transitional period. However, neither Acts 8 nor any verses from the Bible that mentions that Acts 8 should be meant for transitional period and that should be the ultimate reason for the request of the Holy Spirit. By asserting that the event as mentioned in Acts 8 to be the transitional period has caused one to add words of presumption that is not even mentioned in the Scripture. What if the event as mentioned in Acts 8:15 in reality should not be meant for transitional period, the phrase, they were come down prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, in Acts 8:15 would give the impression that God demands the practice of the praying of the Holy Spirit as mentioned in Acts 2. As nothing is mentioned in Acts 8 that it is meant for transitional period to excuse people in the future to pray for the receipt of the Holy Spirit other than the presumptuous thought from some commentators, the intention to do away the requesting of the Holy Spirit with excuses to be give, would ultimately cause many people to be in the doom with their presumption that they have received the Holy Spirit and yet in reality, they might not have.

    c) Some commentators might have suggested that the phrase, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed?, in Acts 19:2 is meant to be either the spoken words raised during the transitional period or for other excuse reason (such as, this is meant to be for exceptional case due to they had received or known merely John’s baptism) to discourage people from requesting the receipt of the Holy Spirit. However, neither Acts 19 nor any verses in the Bible does mention that Acts 19 should be meant for transitional period. The commentators simply add words of assumption to discourage people from requesting of the Holy Spirit. What if Acts 19 should not be considered as transitional period or it was not due to other reason (such as they had merely received John’s baptism) in realtiy, those people, that have this presumptuous thought, have undoubtedly added words of presumption in which they are not mentioned elsewhere in the Bible. What if praying for the receipt of the Holy Spirit has to be considered as part of the plan for God’s salvation, the intention to avoid and mislead many not to pray to receive the Holy Spirit, would cause many to be in the doom for not to be born again.

    d)Neither John 4:10 nor John 6:32-34 nor Luke 11:13 mentions that the practice of the requesting of the Holy Spirit should be ceased on the day of Pentecost, it is irrational to add words of presumption in the Bible in which it is not even stated. John 16:7 emphasizes on the outpouring of the Holy Spirit when Jesus was glorified and nothing is mentioned vividly in the Bible about the cessation of the request of the Holy Spirit after the Pentecost. The commentators simply derive conclusion through guessing work that the practice of the requesting of the Holy Spirit should have been ceased after the Pentecost or the so-called, transitional period, that is defined by them, but not mentioned in the Bible.

    Any mis-interpretation on the part of the way to salvation would simply lead people to presume that they are saved and have received the Holy Spirit without the realisation of the possible absence of the Holy Spirit within their bodies.

    Some commentators might use the following verses to oppose the use of sinner’s prayer with the excuse that the Holy Spirit should be with them simply by mentioning that they do confess that Jesus is the Son of God and their recognition about the resurrection of Jesus:

    1 John 4:15, “Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.”

    Romans 10:9, “That if thou shalt confess with the mouth the Lord Jesus, and shall believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.”

    Discuss.

    At a glance, the phrase, Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, in 1 John 4:15 seems to imply that all those people, that confess Jesus as the Son of God, must have received the Holy Spirit. However, the following are the two distinctive cases from the Bible that have brought us to the attention that not all the people, that proclaim Jesus is the Son of God, have received the Holy Spirit:

    a) Instances below that give us the implication that people could proclaim Jesus to be the Son of God even prior to the resurrection of Jesus:

    i) Matthew 14:33, “Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, of a truth thou art the Son of God.”

    ii) Matthew 27:54, “Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.”

    iii) Mark 15:39, “And when the centurion, which stood over against him, saw that he so cried out, and gave up the ghost, he said, Truly this man was the Son of God.”

    iv) John 1:49, “Nathamael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the king of Israel.”

    v) John 11:27, “She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.”

    The following are the extracts to prove that those people, that are mentioned in Matthew 14:33, 27:54; John 1:49, 11:27, and Mark 15:39, did not receive the Holy Spirit prior to the resurrection of Jesus:

    i) John 7:39, “(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive, for the Holy Ghost was not yet [given]: because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)”

    ii) John 16:7, “Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.”

    Despite Matthew 14:33, 27:54; Mark 15:39; John 1:49 and John 11:27 were the events occurred prior to the day that Jesus was glorified and these people should not have received the Holy Spirit in accordance to John 7:39 and 16:7, yet they could proclaim Jesus as the Son of God at the absence of the Holy Spirit. This gives the ultimate conclusion that those people, that could proclaim Jesus to be the Son of God in this modern society, do not give any strong proof that they have God to be dwelt within their bodies.

    b) Instances from the Scripture to prove that even demons could comment that Jesus is the Son of God and yet God do not dwell within their bodies. The following are the extracts:

    i) Matthew 8:29, “And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?”

    ii) Mark 3:11, “And unclean spirits, when they saw him, fell down before him, and cried, saying, Thou art the Son of God.”

    iii) Luke 4:41, “And devils also came out of many, crying out, and saying, Thou art Christ the Son of God. And he rebuke them suffered them not to speak: for they knew that he was Christ.”

    iv) Luke 8:28, “When he saw Jesus, he cried out, and fell down before him, and with a loud voice said, what have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God most High? I beseech thee, torment me not.”

    From the above explanations and the extracts, these could easily arrive at the conclusion that it is irrational to determine whether a person has received the Holy Spirit by simply hearing him/her in proclaiming that Jesus is the Son of God.

    As it is irrational to determine whether a person has received the Holy Spirit simply by hearing him/her in proclaiming that Jesus is the Son of God, does it imply that 1 John 4:15 is contradictory to Matthew 14:33, 27:54; John 1:49, 11:27, and Mark 15:39? No, it is irrational to jump into this conclusion since if the word, confess, in 1 John 4:15 is be interpreted with broader definition that it should be accompanied with action instead of restricting to merely mouth-to-mouth confession. When the word, confess, in 1 John 4:15 has been interpreted with broader definition to include our sincere action towards God in treating and letting Jeus to be truly the Son of God to reign in our lives, we then would discover 1 John 4:15 does not contradict itself with other verses in the Bible. Or in other words, the person that confess that Jesus is the Son of God need to have high respect of Jesus and to have Him to come into his/her life to take control of him/her. Could a person be saved simply by proclaiming Jesus to be the Son of God and his/her Lord and yet refusing to allow Him to come into his/her life and to have Him to be the King to reign in his/her life and that is what God desires for.

    James 2:19 provides the truth that the devils even believe in God and yet they tremble as a result of their faith without action. A person might proclaim that he/she believes in Jesus to be the Son of God and his/her Lord and yet God is interested whether his faith is accompanied with his willingness to accept Him to be his Personal Saviour and Lord. The following are the extracts for James 2:19-24 and these are self-explanatory:

    James 2:19-24, “Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.”

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  2. Some commentators might strongly condemn sinner’s prayer by mentioning that this is not found anywhere in the Bible. Discuss.

    Let’s look into all the factors that should contribute towards sinner’s prayer prior to looking into the matter above:

    a) Repentance: Repentance is significant for non-Christians for their conversions. The intention to do away repentance among non-Christians would not cause those that persist in sinning without repentant heart, to be born again due to God regard not their prayer. The following are the extracts:

    Psalms 66:18, “If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me.”

    Isaiah 1:15, “And ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood.”

    Isaiah 59:1-2, “Behold, the Lord’s hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear: But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.”

    Nevertheless, non-Christians have to repent from sinning, such as, abandoning in worshipping idols, and etc. prior to their commencement of Sinner’s prayer or else their prayer would simply be in vain.

    b) Confession of Sins: The introduction of confession of sins in sinner’s prayer among non-Christians would certainly direct their mind to the right path in acknowledging and confessing their sins before God for the claim of the promise of sin’s cleansing as spelt out below:

    1 John 1:9, “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”

    The same is mentioned in Proverb 28:13, “(that) He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.”

    Bearing in mind that iniquities are the barriers that cause non-Christians not to reach out to God since God regard not iniquities. The following are the extracts for detailed examination and analyses:

    Psalms 5:4-5, “For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee…thou hatest all workers of iniquity.”

    Psalms 7:11, “…God is angry with the wicked every day.”

    Isaiah 59:1-2, “Behold, the Lord’s hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear: But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.”

    Proverbs 15:26, “The thoughts of the wicked are an abomination to the Lord…”

    Proverbs 15:29, “The Lord is far from the wicked…”

    Would this imply that the verses above contradict the phrase, For God so loved the world, in John 3:16? No, the verses above do not contradict the phrase, For God so loved the world, in John 3:16 provided that the word, world, in John 3:16 has to exclude evil deeds, disobedience to God and all kinds of iniquities. Without excluding iniquities from the definition of the word, world, the interpretation would turn up to be unjustifiable that God love people to commit iniquities, such as, stirring up violence, havoc and etc. in the society.

    The confession of sins in sinner’s prayer enables non-Christian to express their iniquities towards God to ease the sins’ cleansing especially sins have caused them to be separated from God as mentioned in Isaiah 59:1-2 and that is why there is a need for them to confess their sins before God for sins’ cleansing for the claim of the promise as mentioned in 1 John 1:9, “(that) If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” Romans 4:7, “[saying], Blessed [are] they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.”

    What if non-Christians insist their perfection without sins, would their sins be forgiven? 1 John 1:8, “If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.” As the phrase, the truth is not in us, is mentioned in 1 John 1:8 with the phrase, If we say that we have no sin, it implies that God’s truth is not with non-Christians if they insist their perfection without sins. As God’s truth is not with them if they insist they are without sins, there should not be any possibility that God would be with them or their sins could be forgiven. The same is mentioned in 1 John 1:10, “(that) If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.”

    The reason for all non-Christians need to express their sins towards God by confession through sinner’s prayer, has been spelt out as follows:

    Romans 3:23, “For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.”

    Romans 5:12, “Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:”

    Romans 5:18-19, “Therefore as by the offence of one [judgment came] upon all men to condemnation;…For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners,…”

    c) Faith has to be exercised throughout sinner’s prayer. This is due to non-Christians would not expect to receive any from sinner’s prayer if they do not exercise faith throughout/after sinner’s prayer, such as, they do not believe their sins have been forgiven; they do not believe that the Holy Spirit has come into their bodies, and etc.; after sinner’s prayer. The following are the extracts:

    James 1:6-8, “But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. For let not that man think he shall receive any thing of the Lord. A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.”

    d) Sinner’s prayer should also include forgiveness of sins of others. This is due to God demand non-Christians to forgive others prior to granting the forgiveness of their sins. The following are the supporting verses:

    Matthew 6:14-15, “For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your Father will also forgive you: But if ye forgive not men their trespasses; neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.”

    Mark 11:25-26, “And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses. But if you do not forgive, neither will your father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.”

    The Lord allow confession of sins to be included in prayer. The following are the extracts for proves:

    Matthew 6:12, “(mentions that) And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.”

    Luke 11:4, “And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us.”

    Nevertheless, there is a preference to include the request of the forgiveness of sins for others during sinner’s prayer.

    e) Request for the receipt of the Holy Spirit:

    John 4:10, “ Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.”

    John 6:32-34, “ Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven. For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world. Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.”

    Luke 11:13, “If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall [your] heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?”

    Acts 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.”

    John 4:10, 6:32-34 and Luke 11:13 above are the spoken words from Jesus that direct non-Christians for the request of the Holy Spirit. Many commentators say that the request of the Holy Spirit should have ceased on the day of Pentecost. However, none of the verses in the Bible do mention the request of the Holy Spirit should have ceased after the Pentecost in Acts 2. What if the praying for the receipt of the Holy Spirit should not cease in reality and that the event in the book of Acts 19 was not the transitional period, those people that refuse to pray for the receipt of the Holy Spirit will be in the doom and the phrase, Have ye received the Holy Spirit since ye believed?, in Acts 19:2 would turn up to be the warning among non-Christians for their earnest request of the receipt of the Holy Spirit.

    The following are the extracts that none of us should add or remove any words from the Scripture:

    Proverbs 30:6, “Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.”

    Ecclesiastes 3:14, “I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be forever: nothing can be put to it, nor anything taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him.”

    Isaiah 34:16, “Seek ye out of the book of the Lord, and read: no one of these shall fail, none shall want her mate: For my mouth it hath commanded, and his spirit it hath gathered them.”

    Isaiah 40:8, “…the word of our God shall stand for ever.”

    e) To include acknowledging Jesus’ resurrection in sinner’s prayer: This is by virtue of Jesus’ resurrection is part of the plan for salvation. The following is the extract:

    Romans 10:9, “That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.”

    After reading the above factors that have direct impact upon salvation. Now, let’s meditate Acts 2:16 as well as 8:15 cautiously below for the reply that some commentators have brought out to do away sinner’s prayer with the excuse that it is not mentioned in the Bible:

    Acts 2:16, “And now why tarriest thou? Arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.” The word, and, in Acts 2:16 has separated the word, baptized, and the phrase, wash away thy sins, it implies the two distinctive roles for baptism and the washing away of sins. The phrase, washing away thy sins, in Acts 2:16 implies sins cleansing to be exercised prior to the receipt of the Holy Spirit. The only event in the book of Acts that has mentioned about the sin’s cleansing is from Acts 2:16 and it is not found elsewhere. However, nothing is mentioned anywhere in the Book of Acts other than Acts 2:16 pertaining to sin’s cleansing, does not imply the disciples did not perform the same in other chapters. What if the practice of sin’s cleansing was exercised in other events and yet it is not mentioned in the book of Acts, the intention to do away confession of sins in this modern society would result in sins remaining among non-Christians. As sins remain among them, would you think God would answer their prayer to be born again? Meditate Isaiah 59:1-2 for the consideration.

    Acts 8:15, “Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Spirit:” The phrase, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, in Acts 8:15 implies that the disciples did request for the receipt of the Holy Spirit for non-Christians. The only event in the book of Acts that has mentioned about the praying of the receipt of the Holy Spirit could be found in Acts 8:15. What if the practice of praying for the receipt of the Holy Spirit was exercised in other events in the book of Acts and yet it is not mentioned at all, the intention to do away the practice in praying for the receipt of the Holy Spirit in this modern society would result that many would fall as a result of the absence of the Holy Spirit. These people would simply live in the world of presumption that they have been saved and have received the Holy Spirit and ignorantly to be waiting for condemnation.

    Meditate Matthew 7:21 and 23 carefully below prior to abandoning the practice of sinner’s prayer:

    Matthew 7:21, “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.”

    Matthew 7:23, “And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.”

    Those people that proclaim Jesus is Lord as mentioned in Matthew 7:21 might have great faith for their salvation and yet Matthew 7:23 gives us the warning of their rejection and these give us the hint, that not all that proclaim Jesus is LORD, are Christians.

    Did God put all the messages inside one sentence so as to conclude everything?

    Isaiah 28:9-11, “Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? [them that are] weaned from the milk, [and] drawn from the breasts. For precept [must be] upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, [and] there a little: For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.” As the phrase, here a little and there a little, is mentioned in Isaiah 28:9-10, it implies that God might not express all his message by a single sentence. What he did in the Bible was simply a message stated here a little and there a little and we have to gather all these messages from different parts of the Bible to form a full message of God.

    As God use different verses here and there to form a full message of God, there should not be any reason for one to use a single verse, such as, 1 John 4:15 or John 3:16 to conclude the message of God without gathering all the information from the rest of the Bible.

    The emphasis that non-Christians have to be born again is based merely upon the following extracts:

    John 3:5-7, “Jesus answered, Vereily, Verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.”

    Romans 8:9, “(has spelt out clearly that)…if any man have not the Spirit of God, he is none of his…”

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  3. Some commentators might oppose sinner’s prayer with the excuse that the Scripture does not demand people to ask Jesus into their heart. Discuss.

    The most obvious verses to show that the Bible does contain verses pertaining to asking Jesus into our heart:

    Acts 8:15, “they were come down prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit…” The phrase, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, in Acts 8:15 implies that the people did ask Jesus into their heart.

    Luke 11:13, “If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall [your] heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?” The phrase, [your] heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him, in Luke 11:13 implies Jesus even mentioned the asking of the Holy Spirit into our heart.

    The less obvious verses that give the hint in the Bible pertaining to asking Jesus into our heart:

    John 4:10, “ Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.” The phrase, living water, in John 4:15 should refer undoubtedly to eternal life. As the phrase, If thou knewest the gift of God…thou wouldest have asked of him, is mentioned in Acts 4:10 with the phrase, living water, it implies the asking of Jesus to receive the gift of God, that is the Holy Spirit, that leads to living water and that is eternal life. The word, asked, is mentioned in this verse.

    John 6:32-34, “ Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven. For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world. Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.” The phrase, the true bread, in John 6:32 should refer to Jesus. As the phrase, Then said they unto him…give us this bread, is mentioned in Acts 6:34 with the phrase, true bread, in John 6:32, it implies that the disciples did ask for the receipt of the Holy Spirit.

    Acts 19:2, “He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.” The phrase, Have ye receive the Holy Ghost since ye believed?, in Acts 19:2 implies the possibility of the absence of the Holy Spirit among the people that believe in Jesus. Or else, there should not be any reason for Acts 19:2 to raise a query that, Have ye receive the Holy Ghost since ye believed? Instead, the verse should mention that the Holy Ghost is in you since ye believed. As the phrase, Have ye receive the Holy Ghost since ye believed?, is mentioned in Acts 19:2, non-Christians have to express to God for their desire to allow Jesus to come into their heart to be their Lord and Personal Saviour.

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  4. Jonathan,

    Acts 8:15 portrays the Apostles praying that others would receive the Spirit of God. This is no different in concept from you praying that God would save someone you care about.

    In the Luke passage, the context has nothing to do with salvation. The term “heavenly Father” gives clear indication that those to whom the Lord is speaking are saved, as the unregenerate have Satan as their spiritual father.

    But the BIG issue is not the concept of one who is under the conviction of the Holy Spirit, being called by God, crying out for mercy – that is fine and biblical. The BIG issue is the superficial “pray and be saved” none sense that is typically wrapped up in unbiblical invitations to “ask Jesus into your heart”.

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  5. Manfred you are absolutely correct, God bless you for your biblical understanding of this topic which is deceiving thousands 😦 …….love your blog.

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  6. Manfred and Sylvia,

    Glad to have your reply! The following are my reply pertaining to your queries:

    Some commentators mention that Acts 8:15 should be interpreted as the apostles could pray for others to receive the Holy Spirit and that Luke 11:13 has been interpreted by them that the context has nothing to do with salvation. The term, Heavenly Father, gives clear indication that those to whom the Lord is speaking, as the unregenerate have Satan to be the spiritual Father. Discuss.

    Acts 8:15 has been interpreted that the apostles could pray for others to receive the Holy Spirit. However, these apostles did not need to pray for these people in order to receive the Holy Spirit provided that the doctrine, believing leads to immediate receipt of the Holy Spirit, is true. My query is why these apostles should pray to these people for the receipt of the Holy Spirit when the Holy Spirit should be with them unless these people did not have the Holy Spirit at time of their belief provided that the doctrine, believing leads to immediate receipt of the Holy Spirit, is true.

    Luke 11:13 undoubtedly might or might not have relationship with salvation and that I do not know. The query is raised simply that why the phrase, your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him, is mentioned in Luke 11:13. For instance, if believing leads to immediate receipt of the Holy Spirit, why Jesus linked up the phrase, the Holy Spirit, and the word, ask, on the condition that the doctrine, believing leads to immediate receipt of the Holy Spirit, is true. The reason is simply that the person needs not to ask for the receipt of the Holy Spirit since the Holy Spirit would come automatically upon the people.

    Pray and be saved, might be considered to be superficial. However, the most significance is whether the person has received the Holy Spirit since Romans 8:9 mentions that those, that do not have the Holy Spirit, do not belong to Him.

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  7. Acts 8:15
    The Church is being built. The Jews hated the Samaritans and they hated gentiles. Whenever the Holy Spirit falls on people in Acts it is a new people group that is being added to the Church. Such as in Acts 10. If Peter had not seen the Holy Spirit fall on the gentiles the same as He had on the Jews, then the Jewish Christians never would have accepted the gentile Christians.
    Jews, Samaritans, disciples of John, gentiles

    But I guess I could be totally wrong. I am sure there are those that disagree with me.

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  8. Thanks for the reply from Shane pertaining to Acts 8:15.
    You have mentioned that the Jews hated Samarians as well as gentiles. This is not spelt out in the book of Acts and I do not know whether the Jews really at that time had such hatred among Samarians as well as gentiles. The only thing I know from the book of Acts is the Jews hated Christians and that led to the persecution of Christianity.
    Jesus was the first being put to death as a result of Jews as spelt out in Marks 14:1, “…the scribes sought how they might take him by craft, and put him to death.” The Jews followed Judas with the intention to put him to death as mentioned in Mark 14:43, “And immediately, while he yet spake, cometh Judas, one the the twelve, and with him a great multitude with swords and staves, from the CHIEF PRIESTS AND THE SCRIBES AND THE ELDERS.” The Jews intended Jesus to be put to death as mentioned in Mark 14:9—13, “But Pilate answered them, saying, Will ye that I release unto you the King of the Jews…But THE CHIEF PRIESTS moved the people, that he should rather release Barabbas unto them. And Pilate answered and said…What will ye than that I shall do unto him whom ye called the King of the Jews? And they cried out again, Crucify him.”
    The disciples were persecuted by the Jews subsequently. The following is one of the extracted events: Acts 6:9, “Then there arose certain of the synagogue of the Libertines…disputing with Stephen.” The word, synagogue, in Acts 6:9 gives the hint that these people must be the Jews. Acts 6:12-14, “And they stirred up the people, and ELDERS, AND THE SCRIBES, and came upon him, and caught him, and brought him to the council, and set up false witnesses, which said, This man ceaseth not to speak blasphemous words against this holy place, and the law…”
    You have mentioned that Peter had not seen the Holy Spirit fell upon the gentiles as He had on the Jews and that Jewish Christians never would have accepted the gentile Christians and these led to them to pray for the Holy Spirit as mentioned in Acts 8:15. However, for instance, if the doctrine, believing leads to immediate receipt of the Holy Spirit, is true, there should not be any reason for the Jews to mention that Acts 8:15, “prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Ghost:” This is due to the Holy Spirit should have come upon the gentile Christians at the time of their belief automatically provided that the doctrine, believing leads to immediate receipt of the Holy Spirit, is true.

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  9. To Jonathan CHM:

    The next time you paste long, drawn out ramblings like you have posted here–which is nothing more than what you have copied-and-pasted, word for word, on at least 5 or 6 other blogs (like here, and here, and here, and here, and here, and here, and here. Google is an amazing thing!), those ramblings (and any discussion that follows) will be deleted.

    Understand?

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  10. The following are the extracts that even angels could perform miracles:

    John 5:3-4, “In these lay a great multitude of impotent folk, of blind, halt, withered, waiting for the moving of the water. For an angel went down at a certain season into the pool, and troubled the water: whosoever then first after the troubling of the water stepped in was made whole of whatsoever disease he had.”

    As angels could perform miracles and there are fallen angels, it is irrational to use the strange emotion within any Charismatic people’s bodies to prove that they have receive the Holy Spirit with them. This is due to the miracles could be from fallen angels and not God. No doubt those people that are mentioned in Matthew 7:21-23 that could perform in Jesus’ name will be rejected by God. So, what is the so-called, practising the feeling of the presence of God, then? It could not be used to confirm that they have received the Holy Spirit.

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  11. Some commentators might argue that Peter had not seen the Holy Spirit fell upon the gentiles as He had on the Jews and that Jewish Christians never would have accepted the gentile Christians and these led them to pray for the Holy Spirit as mentioned in Acts 8:15. Discuss.

    Let’s meditate Acts 8:5-17 carefully prior to tackling the query above:

    Acts 8:5-6, “…PHILIP WENT DOWN TO THE CITY OF SAMARIA, AND PREACHED CHRIST UNTO THEM…” Acts 8:8-10, “…But there was a certain man, called Simon,… bewitched the people of Samaria,…saying, This man is the great power of God.”

    Did the Samaria believe in Jesus after Acts 8:5, “…Philip (had)…preached Christ unto them…”? Yes, they did believe since Acts 8:12, “(mentions that)…THEY BELIEVED…concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of JESUS CHRIST…”

    After Acts 8:12, “(Samaria had)…believed…(in) Jesus Christ”, did they follow up with water baptism? Yes, they did since in the latter part of Acts 8:12, “(it is mentioned that)…THEY WERE BAPTIZED, BOTH MEN AND WOMEN.”

    Not only Samaria had been baptized, Acts 8:13, “…Simon himself believed also: and…(had been) baptized…”

    What did the apostles do after knowing Samaria had Acts 8:12, “…believed (in)…Jesus Christ…(and) were baptized (with water baptism)…”? Acts 8:14-17, “…when the apostles which were at Jerusalem HEARD that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: Who, when THEY were come down, PRAYED FOR THEM, THAT THEY MIGHT RECEIVE THE HOLY GHOST.”

    Did Samaria receive the Holy Spirit immediately after Acts 8:12, “…they (had) believed (in)…Jesus Christ…”? No, they did not receive the Holy Spirit at the time of their belief since Acts 8:14-17, “(mention that)…the apostles…heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they…c(a)me down, PRAYED FOR THEM, THAT THEY MIGHT RECEIVE THE HOLY GHOST.” Obviously there is a gap (between Acts 8:12 in which they had believed in Jesus and yet Acts 8:17 that they received the Holy Ghost) in which the Holy Spirit was not inside their bodies at the time of their belief. As Acts 8:14-17, “…the apostles… (came) down, (and) prayed for (Samaria) that they might receive the Holy Ghost” after Acts 8:12, “… they (had) believed… (in) Jesus Christ…”, it implies that believing does not lead to immediate receipt of the Holy Spirit.

    Did Samaria receive the Holy Spirit immediately after Acts 8:12, “…they…were baptized (with water baptism)…”? No, they did not receive the Holy Spirit immediately since Acts 8:14-17, “(mention that)…THEY…come down, PRAYED FOR THEM, THAT THEY MIGHT RECEIVE THE HOLY GHOST: (For as yet he WAS FALLEN UPON NONE OF THEM: ONLY THEY WERE BAPTIZED IN THE NAME OF THE LORD JESUS.) …”

    For instance, if the doctrine, that believing leads to immediate receipt of the Holy Spirit, is true, the people of Samaria should have received the Holy Spirit in Acts 8:12. For instance, if the doctrine, that water baptism could direct immediate receipt of the Holy Spirit, is true, the people of Samaria should have received the Holy Spirit in Acts 8:12. As the people of Samaria did not receive the Holy Spirit until Acts 8:17, “…Peter and John…prayed for them…”, it implies the possible absence of the Holy Spirit at the time of belief.

    Now, let’s tackle the question above that some commentators support that Samaria should be treated as gentile Christians and these led them to pray for the Holy Spirit:

    Who were these Samaria? The following are the extracts from Strong Concordance and it could be located at: http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G4540&t=KJV

    Samaria = “guardianship”
    1)A TERRITORY IN PALESTINE, which had Samaria as its capital

    The phrase, a territory in Palestine, is mentioned in this definition and yet in the ancient map of Israel, Palestine was located at the border of Israel and yet Samaria was classified as part of Israel.

    As Samaria was part of Israel (1 Kings 16:29, 21:18, 22:51, 2 Kings 3:1, 3:6, 10:36, 13:1, 13:10 and 15:8) instead of to be considered as gentiles, it is erroneous to interpret Acts 8:5-17 to be the event that Peter had not seen the Holy Spirit fell upon the gentiles and that Jewish Christians did not accept them and these caused them to pray for the receipt of the Holy Spirit.

    Nevertheless, the event in Acts 8:5-17 does provide the proof that believing does not lead to immediate receipt of the Holy Spirit and that is why sinner’s prayer should be stressed.

    Instance that Saul could proclaim that Jesus to be the Lord prior to receiving the Holy Spirit.

    Let’s meditate Acts 9:1-18 with detailed analyses as follows:

    Acts 9:1, “And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,” Acts 9:4, “And HE FELL TO THE EARTH, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?”

    After falling down, did Saul question the Lord who was He? Yes he did question the Lord since Acts 9:5, “(mentions that)…he said, WHO ARE THOU, LORD? …”

    What was the reply to Saul after questioning who was He? The Lord admitted that He was Jesus since Acts 9:5, “(mentions that)…the Lord said, I AM JESUS whom thou persecutest…”

    Did Saul call Jesus to be the Lord after realizing that the One that he spoke to was none other than Jesus Himself as mentioned in Acts 9:5? Acts 9:6, “And he trembling and astonished said, LORD, WHAT WILT THOU HAVE ME TO DO? …”

    If you would refer to the definition of the word, Lord, in Acts 9:6 from Strong Concordance, you would have discovered that its original meaning is identical to the word, Lord, in Romans 10:9 that is defined as allowing Jesus to take control of Saul’s life to be his Master. Or in other words, when Saul mentioned the word, Lord, in Acts 9:6, it implies his desire to have Jesus to take control of him to be his Master.

    Could Saul have sight problem after opening his eyes? Acts 9:8, “And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus.”

    Did Saul receive the Holy Spirit when he called Jesus to be the Lord in Acts 9:6 after realizing that Jesus is Lord in Acts 9:5? No, he did not receive the Holy Spirit when he called Jesus to be the Lord in Acts 9:5 since Acts 9:17, “(mentions that)…Ananias…said, BROTHER SAUL, …that THOU MIGHTEST RECEIVE THY SIGHT, AND BE FILLED WITH THE HOLY GHOST” and Acts 9:18, “…immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.” Thus, despite Saul proclaim Jesus to be the Lord in Acts 9:6 after realizing that the One that he spoke to was none other than Jesus in Acts 9:5, yet he only received the Holy Spirit in Acts 9:18 since the phrase, there fell from his eyes as it had been scales…and was baptized, is mentioned then.

    Nevertheless, there is an obvious gap (between Acts 9:6 in which he called Jesus to be the Lord and Acts 9:18 that the Holy Spirit came upon him) in which he believed in Jesus and yet the Holy Spirit was not with him, it implies that a person that calls Jesus to be his Lord might not necessarily have received the Holy Spirit.

    What was the reason that the Holy Spirit was not with Saul even though he did proclaim Jesus to be his Lord in Acts 9:6 and that led him to be baptized with the Holy Spirit in Acts 9:18?

    Let’s meditate James 2:17-19 for clarification:

    James 2:17-19, “Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.”

    As the phrase, faith…hath not works is dead, is mentioned in James 2:17, it implies that our confession to Jesus to be our Lord has to be accompanied with action or else our faith is in vain. As the word, Lord, in Romans 10:9, 10:13 and 1 Corinth 12:3 has been defined in the Strong Concordance as allowing Jesus to come and control the lives of non-Christians to be their Master, they have to follow with action to request the Holy Spirit to come into their lives and that is why there is a need for the request of the receipt of the Holy Spirit. We are told from the Scripture not to be the hearers of God’s words but be the doers.

    James 2:19 mentions that even the devils believe and yet tremble. The reason is simply that the devils believe and yet they do not follow with action to receive Him as their Master.

    The same is mentioned in Matthew 7:21, “(that) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the Kingdom of heaven; but HE THAT DOETH the will of my father which is in heaven.” Non-Christians are urged to be the doers of the Scripture instead of hearers. When the Scripture demands non-Christians to call Jesus as the Lord, it demands them to allow Jesus to come into their lives to take control of them.

    Despite Saul proclaimed Jesus to be his Lord in Acts 9:6, his action to receive Jesus Christ was in Acts 9:17-18 and that caused him to be converted then.

    The less obvious event that proves that believing does not lead to immediate receipt of the Holy Spirit is taken from Acts 8:27-39 about the conversion of the eunuch. The following is the analysis:

    Acts 8:27-28, “…a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch…had come tg Jerusalem for to worship, was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet”

    What did Philip do when he met the eunuch? Acts 8:35, “…Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.”

    When did Philip believe in Jesus as mentioned in Acts 8? Let’s Meditate Acts 8:36-37 below prior to tackling this question:

    Acts 8:36, “… THE EUNUCH SAID, See, here is water; WHAT DOTH HINDER ME TO BE BAPTIZED?” Acts 8:37, “And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I BELIEVE THAT JESUS CHRIST IS THE SON OF GOD.”

    Some might support that the eunuch believed in Jesus in Acts 8:37 since Acts 8:37, “(mentions that he).. answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.” However, some might argue that it should be in Acts 8:36, “(since)…the eunuch said, …what doth hinder me to be baptized?” Their support to be in Acts 8:36 would be due to there should not be any justifiable reason for him to ask to be baptized if he did not believe in Jesus. In any of the above analyses, the eunuch should have started to believe in Jesus either in Acts 8:36 or in 8:37.

    Did Acts 8 mention that he did receive the Holy Spirit after believing? No, it did not mention that, except the phrase, be baptized him, is mentioned in Acts 8:38. The following is the extract:

    Acts 8:38, “And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.”

    As nothing is mentioned whether the eunuch did receive the Holy Spirit except the phrase, he baptized him, in Acts 8:38, it might come to the conclusion that he only received the Holy Spirit in Acts 8:38.

    For instance, if he only received the Holy Spirit in Acts 8:38, there is a gap of time in which the Holy Spirit should not be with him in the early part of Acts 8:38, “(that mentions that)…he commanded the chariot to stand still…” and he had not received the Holy Spirit until after the latter part of Acts 8:38 despite he had believed in Jesus in either Acts 8:36 or 8:37.

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