By on Jan 6, 2012 in AM Missives, Current Issues, Features, Southern Baptist Convention Note: videos that should make you weep are on Ken’s web site at the link above.

Apprising Ministries has been warning for years concerning the evil effects of the neo-liberal in the Emerging Church aka the Emergent Church.

It’s an incontrovertible fact that right from its hatching in hell corrupt Contemplative Spirituality/Mysticism (CSM), such as that taught by Living Spiritual Teacher and Quaker mystic Richard Foster along with his spiritual twin and Southern Baptist minister Dallas Willard, was a core doctrine.

Spreading as a spiritual cancer throughout apostatizing evangelicalism, we even see that it’s slithered all the way into the New Calvinst neo-reformed camp e.g. as in Acts 29 Network And Reformed Counter Reformation Spirituality? One of the fruits of CSM is a blurring of doctrinal lines, which is particularly dangerous in this time of postmodernism and growing spiritual blindness.

It’s also giving rise to a rebirth of Pietism; this isn’t surprising when you consider that CSM flowered in the antibiblical monastic traditions of apostate Roman Catholicism. As the evangelical fad of CSM expands there’s a decided charismania also developing, which is producing a syncretism where Word Faith heretics like Joel Osteen and T.D. Jakes are essentially considered mainstream now. With all of this has come more and more people claiming to have direct experience with God.

The end result is making the climate more condusive for things like Beth Moore Recommending “Jesus Calling” Book Claiming Direct Divine Revelation. This is the backdrop upon which to better see what’s happening as you watch the video clips to follow below from the Passion 2012 Conference. This conference has been going on in Atlanta, and was largely aimed at young adults and students.

Hosted by Louis Giglio, pastor of Passion City Church in Atlanta, Passion featured an interesting lineup of speakers such Francis Chan, Beth Moore and New Calvinist mentor John Piper. Not surpisingly the conference had a distinctive charismatic and even contemplative flair; e.g. prayer walking. After one session the crowd was urged to break into “love groups” and go out to pray and “take back the city of Atlanta.”

Years of emerging bombardment of pro-CSM propaganda aimed at younger sectors of the Christian community fired right out of evangelical publishing houses has also had much effect upon the broader culture of the more charismatic/emotion-driven side of the church visible as well. To serve as an illustration, below we have SBC Lifeway-sponsored Beth Moore praising an apostate (at best) Roman Catholic mystic and the crown jewel of CSM.

If you didn’t know, this is a form of meditation in an altered state of consciousness commonly known as Contemplative/Centering Prayer (CCP):

Moore’s admitted practice of some form of CCP, which is actually divination, has opened her up to even receive direct revelation and visions from God. Below from a 2002 series called Believing God, available right now at Lifeway’s website, Moore describes a vision God gave her concerning His Church.

Sounding not too unlike Word Faith wingnuts she tells us God took her into some kind of dimension where she was able to see the Body of Christ as Jesus sees it:

Apparently the Protestant Reformation was really some sort of horrible mistake because Moore’s Jesus sees the Roman Catholic Church as another Christian denomination. This becomes clear below as Moore demonstrates what she saw in her vision from God:

Yet despite this obviously false vision ten years ago, there was Beth Moore preaching to thousands alongside New Calvinists John Piper and Francis Chan. I guess we really should expect this because Piper has told us before: “I’m Happy To Learn From Beth Moore.”

Who knows, perhaps he even shares Moore’s view that men like John MacArthur are guilty of teaching extreme error in the Body of Christ:

By the way, the other extreme teaching in the Body of Christ that Beth Moore sees is what she calls “sensationalism.” Something I personally think she’s now become involved in. The CSM being dabbled with now in mainstream evangelicalism is producing a rebirth of Pietism; an emotional, sentimental, emotion-driven form of worship. What you saw at Passion 2012.

Christian apologist Bob DeWaay is dead-on-target as he explains:

Pietism is difficult to define because it can be taught and practiced in an unlimited number of ways. Some versions appear to be innocuous while others are so radical that most people would see that something is wrong. I now know that no version of pietism is actually innocuous. If a teaching is called pietism but teaches no more than what God has always used to sanctify Christians, then it is not really pietism. Real pietism always harms those who embrace it.

The essence of pietism is this: It is a practice designed to lead to an experience that purports to give one an elite or special status compared to ordinary Christians. The Bible addresses this error in the book of Colossians. The false teachers in Colossae claimed to have the secret to a superior Christian experience that would cause people to rise above the bad “fate” they feared. Paul went on to explain that they already had everything they needed through Christ and His work on the cross. Another way of stating this is: If after having fully trusted Christ’s finished work on the cross, you are told that you are still lacking something, you are being taught pietism.

Church history is littered with misguided pietistic movements. Many of them are linked with mysticism… Pietism can be practiced many ways including enforced solitude, asceticism of various forms, man made religious practices, legalism, submission to human authorities who claim special status, and many other practices and teachings.
(Online source)

In closing this, for now, I’ll show you something that gives us real cause for concern in the seeming dangerous drift of Beth Moore and John Piper. Following are clips from Session 5 of Passion 2012 where we were to enter into the silence to let God speak to us, not only through Scripture, but directly inside of us as well. However, this is language actually straight out of CSM and can also refer to the TM-lite of CCP.

Beth Moore, John Piper et al each took turns reading from the Book of Ephesians; then they each would ask for silence and say something along the lines of: “Be still and let Jesus speak to you.” This is Beth Moore:

Now John Piper:

Finally, here’s Louis Giglio closing out Session 5. Any doubt about what’s been going on in the silence is dispelled at :20 below. To all but the most naive it will become clear to you that, contra the proper Christian spirituality of sola Scriptura, Giglio is talking about direct encounters with God in addition to Holy Scriptura:

“How many of you heard the voice of God speak specifically, clearly, directly, and personally, to you? Can you just put a hand up? I’d like you to share it. Can you put a hand up for a minute?

Just want you to look around; that’s people saying, “God Almighty (pause) the Maker of heaven (pause) the one Who’s sitting on the only throne (pause) that’s not under threat (long pause, audience cheers)—He spoke to me. He spoke to me.”

“God spoke to me.” (long pause) Don’t let the voice of the darkness, tell you that you are not (pause) worth (pause) that God would not speak to you. (pause) Don’t let him tell you, you don’t matter. (pause) God spoke to you.

Perhaps this is why more and more in the charismatic camp have been embracing the Roman Catholic Church as another Christian denomination; like Rome, they now also have the Bible…plus…


See also:





  1. If there was ever a shred of doubt left as to Piper’s leanings and the direction he is moving – which is away from true Biblical Christianity – this should drive the last nail in the coffin. This man has moved from the realm of truth to accepting and endorsing outright heresy. So sad that there will still be those who believe this man is a Biblically sound teacher.

    Manfred, thank you for sharing this. We need to be aware of the truth of God’s Word and realize that in the last days many will depart from the faith. We must pray that Piper does not continue but will repent and return to the God of his salvation.


  2. I have seen some news of that conference. How long will folk continue to support John Piper? Was his “Christian hedonism” not enough? Has his celebrity status gone to his head? Voddie has told me that Piper’s church people refused to cooperate with church plants that Piper wanted to do, because that would put some of them under another man’s preaching. This was years ago, the result being the mega-church in which I dare say he pastors nobody but preaches to thousands. Years ago, when he was told that, he should have taught his people to love the Lord, not him; he should have rebuked them and led a church plant himself. He paid no attention to warning signs years back and now he is in a position in which few people will confront him. This is a shame.

    I don’t know if I am more angry or more grieved. How many people will be led astray by these who embrace mystic revelation, thinking it be of God – not content with “hearing” from Jesus through His Word. These people prop up people as the reason for their god’s existence – they have left the camp of biblical Christianity, as you have noted with their commonality with Rome.

    FYI – I will be off-grid from 8 – 15 Jan.


  3. Manfred:

    Thanks for sharing this. Why people ever followed Piper in the first place has been a mystery to me ever since I read his philosophy of “Christian Hedonism” (all his preaching on orthodox doctrine means nothing if he also preaches error). One simply cannot have the Spirit of Truth and be so far in error, and not only so, but to hold tenaciously to that error and teach it for years on end. Just goes to show how deceived men can be. And except for God’s mercy and grace, I would be right in there following the likes of Moore and Piper, along with the rest of the gullible souls who trust their leaders rather than test everyone according to the Scriptures.


  4. Can someone please refresh the video links in this post? My Flash Player is working fine but I can’t see any of them.


  5. Eating at the buffet table, calling it The Lord’s. Peace and safety really tickles ears, especially when it can “feel” so Christian. I’ve been taught that God’s silence doesn’t equal His approval. His Wrath has been building for so long now, but most have deluded themselves into thinking Matthew 7:21-23 applies to anyone but themselves. If they are already deluded, it should make one wonder what the deluding influence will be the God is sending to those who don’t love His Truth (2 Thess 2:10-12) Fear and trembling indeed


  6. This is honestly not meant to be an attack, but Silva’s articles are nearly insufferable. I do not understand why he needs to open every single article by linking to a dozen posts and recycling the same lines verbatim: “corrupt Contemplative Spirituality/Mysticism (CSM), such as that taught by Living Spiritual Teacher and Quaker mystic Richard Foster along with his spiritual twin and Southern Baptist minister Dallas Willard.” Why is this exact line featured in the opening paragraph of almost everything he writes?

    I sincerely do not understand it. It’s distracting and makes the information both less accessible and less clear. Aside from obscuring the point, it comes off as erratic and incoherent.

    As far as the actual content of the article, i.e. Piper, this is unfortunate. I have always loved his ministry and have been greatly blessed by it. I am wounded by his apparent wandering from sound doctrine. I am not ready to condemn him or accuse him of lacking the Spirit of God, but I am dismayed.

    God bless.


  7. The first thing that Jesus told the apostles that would mark the end of the age was DECEPTION!!
    So I guess it should not come as a surprise to any Bible believer. People are being deceived because of the lack of the teaching of Scripture in the pulpit today. Young people are taken in by the celeb pastors(YRR’s) and their culture driven contextualization. Their comedy, stories(usually about themselves) and applications leave the sheep hungry and so they go elsewhere and the rest are told to “just accept Jesus” and then are never given any foundational truths or doctrine to build on. Their faith is an inch deep and a mile wide.
    It would be sad if it weren’t for the fact that God will reach the elect with His message of salvation and protect the sheep from the wolves. He is sovreign!!


  8. @ SnowLeopard ~ I agree that Ken Silva’s blog style is “nearly insufferable”; however, he nails the issues that are in the visible church today. Most of the time I skim over the stuff I’ve already read/studied and focus on the new information. The Lord has used Ken for many years to warn believers of the decption that pervades most ‘ministries’ today, including ‘Desiring God’. We would do well to heed his message.


  9. @Yvonne`I agree. Ken’s pages are kinda like medicine you know tastes horrible but works. But just because I don’t like every jot and tittle of his page and link layout does not in any way affect whether what he says is true or not.
    Regarding a couple of other comments folks have made here, it’s interesting that Ken, telling the truth, can be bashed, and yes it was bashing, for telling the truth in what could be at worst called a clunky manner, while having had the case made against what Piper has taught, teaches and practices, the reader is only “dismayed” at Piper.


  10. It was not intended as a “bashing,” and it certainly has more to do with his style of writing than any perceived defect in his personal character. I merely find it distracting. It is significant enough, however, that I would certainly find another link if I wanted to share information with someone else.

    And my dismay over Piper is–and was expressed as–something far more poignant than my dislike of Silva’s constant rehashing of the same catchphrases. I said I am “wounded” by his departure, and I truly am. It saddens me in my very soul.


  11. My wife was attending a womens Bible study at our church not to long ago.. I asked her what book they where studying and she said that they have ” work books” they study from. So I ask why they don’t study straight from the Bible, she really didn’t think much of it until I had asked. They last straw for me was when she said that they where going to start a new series of ” work books” written by Beth Moore. I am so surprised that the church I attend approves of this nonsense. Among a slew of other non/exta biblical ” classes” our pastor allows, I have to ask me self, how can I teach my family the Word and attend a church that proclames otherwise…..


  12. “Silva’s articles are nearly insufferable. I do not understand why he needs to open every single article by linking to a dozen posts and recycling the same lines verbatim…”

    With all due respect, is there some function on my website that forces anyone to “open every single article by linking to a dozen posts and recycling the same lines verbatim.”

    Answer: No. It does, however, make it easier for my many new readers to quickly catch up on earlier articles. Who knows, maybe that’s why I do it.

    One who’s already aware of what I’ve written, um, could simply read on, no? Perhaps you’d be better served by dealing with the actual substance of what I cover.

    Say like:

    @ SnowLeopard

    “I do not understand why he needs to open every single article by linking to a dozen posts and recycling the same lines verbatim: ‘corrupt Contemplative Spirituality/Mysticism (CSM), such as that taught by Living Spiritual Teacher and Quaker mystic Richard Foster along with his spiritual twin and Southern Baptist minister Dallas Willard.’ Why is this exact line featured in the opening paragraph of almost everything he writes?”

    Sincerely, I think this is a very valid question. Here’s my answer: I think it’s absurd that these two spiritual gurus–and that’s exactly what they are–have been elevated to cult leaders within the visible Christian church. Thus I often, openly, mock their mythology (cf. 2 Timothy 4:3-4).


  13. Hey Ken, thanks for posting that link to the Jim Wallis and John Piper and the Pope article. I usually check in everyday but somehow missed that one. And thanks for all you do!
    Because of your article on Beth Moore and Piper, as I ran into some young people from my church who are in the seminary, in the bookstore last nite, I was able to tell them a little about what had been going on because one of them had a Piper book he was buying.
    They were sort of blank about it all. They seemed to know about the conference with Louis Giglio but had no negative reaction. Actually, they seemed like it had been a big deal. The church we attend is Reformed and the young women(most of the attendees are young) do studies with Beth Moore books. I said you might want to warn them.
    What disturbed me the most was that they were well aware of that conference but were clueless of the error.

    Oh, and Ken, I did point them to your website. It was the Passion conference. And I did explain a little about the church’s road to Rome. I can speak to that because I am an ex-Catholic.
    Anyway, thanks and may God richly bless you for all you are trying to do.



  14. Lemmings! The whole lot are lemmings…and to think 2 years ago I was taken to task by those who would defend the system that IS the broad road to destruction.
    Thanks Manfred and Ken for all your work.
    Now can someone please answer this question? What is, “The broad road to destruction that many enter in thereby?” It sure ain’t the gay bar scene!
    Next question. Where will the “great falling away” take place?
    Also these questions:
    Who would be fooled by the many “anti-christs?”
    Who would beguile and who would be beguiled to follow another gospel? Where would that happen?
    Who would be fooled even unto the elect (if it were possible) if time weren’t shortened?
    …and where would all this happen?
    Are we beginning to see the pattern yet?
    One is your Head! Trust Him alone…EVERYONE ELSE? Verify by the Word in context as lead by the Holy Spirit. You will see clearly when you follow Him as Lord and no man! Testing the spirits…always testing, for the Straight Gate (Jesus and His justification of us) and the Narrow Path (Jesus again, and His sanctifying us)…few there be that find!


  15. Hi Ken,

    Just to be clear, I am not opposed to your “mock[ing] their mythology.” On the contrary, I commend you for it. I am certainly not defending mysticism or anything of that nature. Thanks for exposing it for what it is.

    My complaint has, as its sole aim, the accessibility of your material. I simply think the lengthy, rather tangential introductions are off-putting and, for someone on “the outside,” probably more confusing than helpful. It is precisely because I value the actual core of your message that I expressed dislike in–what I perceive to be–a flaw in the presentation.

    In any event, no hard feelings. Cheers, and God bless.

    And I apologize and repent if my language was sharper than it ought to have been.


  16. Snow Leonard,

    No worries here. You didn’t offend me. 🙂

    The written language can be cold because it lacks inflections, etc. I really don’t mind people speaking frankly with me, even when it may be something critical.

    As to the writing; Apprising is an outreach of my local church and we were given the website by a man who believed the Lord wanted me to have “an Internet pulpit.”

    So, being a pastor, often I’m writing sermons, not typical blog posts. For good or bad, that’s why there’s a flow that sometimes goes beyond a given topic.

    There was no way we ever envisioned the forum would grow as it has, which brings with it a few difficulties. One is with more new readers every day, how to get them up to speed quickly.

    Gently and sincerely, I don’t claim to have found the right balance yet. Please know I’m still adjusting, so suggestions such as yours are helpful. Please try and be patient as I work on this, k.


  17. Ken,

    The threat of the Emerging Church, or perhaps more accurately, the spirit behind the Emerging movement, upon the Gospel, upon Christianity, upon the Bible, is so deceptively lethal in it’s effects, that I for one appreciate any who would continue to expose it by the light of God’s truth on a continual basis as a counter to it’s continual attack on the Truth. Having said that, I am one of those who do not mind in the least your prefacing your posts on Apprising Ministries with your continual reminder of this threat. As I look back on Church History (even within the last generation), the problem has not been over-reminding people of who the Christian’s enemy is (specifically). On the contrary, it has been a negligence to keep reminding the church of just who in particular the enemy is, and why. I wouldn’t change a thing on your posts. But that’s just me.


  18. Hi David,

    God be praised, thank you for the kind words in the Lord. Sadly, the EC is how we got to where we are with all the syncretism. They are the ones who brought stuff like Lectio into youth groups, which are now grown up and infecting evangelical churches a syouth pastors and ministers.

    Frankly, that’s one of the reasons I have been reminding people in a couple of oparagraphs each piece. To help people see how this is all inter-connected. Mysticism brings with it “pleasant-feeling” spiritual deception. It is the glue of the coming Global Family.

    Piper’s now opening his own followers into it. God will not be merely winking.


  19. Now I may be mistaken, but it seems like much of this disagreement stems from a cessationist vs continuous argument. If that is not the case please forgive, but I was just curious.


  20. Timothy,

    It really doesn’t stem from a “cessationist vs continuous argument.” The issue is Piper is a Calvinist. The Protestant Reformers, such as John Calvin, specifically rejected things like Lectio Divina.

    The reason being, it is counter to the proper Christian spirituality of sola Scriptura. What was done at Passion 2012 was to seek direct encounters with Gody. Biblically, that’s msyticism at best, and occultic divination at worst.


  21. I want you guys to do something on a major syncretism today: mixing Christianity with (often Freudian or Freudian-influenced) psychology under the guise of “Christian counseling.”

    P.S. Nothing wrong with prayer walking. The practice is rooted in scripture.


  22. Job,

    The only “prayer walking” that is consistent with Scripture is, well, praying to the Lord as you walk. For that matter, praying while standing at a bus stop we could call “prayer standing”. (or prayer sitting in a car we could call “prayer sitting”).

    But Labyrinth “prayer walking”, contemplative “prayer walking”, and the dominionist taking spiritual authority over your community “prayer walking”, are concepts inconsistent with Scripture.


  23. So you are probably going to have to use simpler terms with me. I am not a theologian and don’t understand all the things being said. “Lectio Divina”? Not sure what that is. Also what is a bible reference where it says it’s wrong to try and have encounters with God? God is a God who speaks and wants a relationship.


  24. “God is a God who speaks and wants a relationship.”

    Correct. By His grace alone, through faith alone, through Christ’s finished work alone on the Cross. He speaks to us through the Scriptures, not some burbling in our hearts.

    Look at the video. They already read the Bible, then, they ask people to be silent and have God speak to them. The evidence is clear; especially with Giglio at the end.


  25. DavidW:

    “But Labyrinth “prayer walking”, contemplative “prayer walking”, and the dominionist taking spiritual authority over your community “prayer walking”, are concepts inconsistent with Scripture.”

    I agree. But the problem in each case is with the labyrinth, contemplative, and dominionist adjectives. Or adverbs. (It’s been a long time since grammar school. I am going to denote “prayer walking” as a “thing” to denote an activity as opposed to a verb, so let’s call them adjectives.) Labyrinth, contemplative/centering, and dominionism are false, heretical doctrines that corrupt any practice associated with it, whether it is prayer, Bible reading and meditating on scripture, preaching/teaching, fasting, evangelism, worship etc. But prayer walking is honestly walking and praying. You walk around a neighborhood (yours or someone else’s) and pray for the people that you encounter and the conditions that you notice. If you see evidence of sickness, violence/crime, poverty, false religions, pornography, materialism etc. afflicting that community, you pray about it. You would – for example – also pray that God would send evangelists and/or establish good churches in that area, and strengthen the ones that exist.

    The fact that the practice is oft abused does not mean that the practice is bad in and of itself. No divination, binding and loosing, mysticism, or “taking authority.” Just walking and praying. It is a step beyond walking while praying, mind you, because your purpose for the walk is to pray for the people in the area that you are walking through. Which is somewhat distinct from, say, praying for your church while walking to your bus stop. Not that such a prayer practice is wrong, a thousand times no. It is just that instead of praying for your church, your family, or to be protected from evil while walking to the bus stop is praying while walking. But while on the way to the bus stop, praying that the crack house that you are walking past would be demolished or reformed, or the abortion clinic that you are walking past would close due to lack of clientele, or that the establishment a few feet from the bus stop advertising psychic readings and lucky numbers would be shuttered and replaced with a good house church is prayer walking.

    From the examples that I gave you, I suppose that it is rather easy for you to guess the sort of neighborhood that I live in. Which, of course, is a reason why those who practice prayer walking can be counted among the Christians in my area, and also those who visit it to evangelize and pray.


  26. Job,

    I don’t disagree with your stated intention. Nothing wrong with praying about what you see as you walk about (or for that matter, as you drive about) an area. The issue is clarification of terms, and your initial statement (“Nothing wrong with prayer walking. The practice is rooted in scripture.”) left a rather blanket endorsement for a term that in this day and age is regularly, and popularly, associated with mysticism and/or dominionism. So I appreciate your clarification.


  27. So does God only speak through scriptures? If I need to hear from God on an issue, I open my Bible? Is this correct?

    Also, an above poster has misunderstood something. Beth Moore uses the Bible with her studies. The workbook is not in place of the Bible. I understand this site views her as a false teacher.


  28. Ky gal,

    Beth Moore is not a good bible teacher, she delves in mysticism. Sure she uses the Bible {albeit not correctly, not in proper exegetical fashion}, but it isn’t her sole authority. Anyone that claims extra revelation should be avoided, for this is sin because the Bible commands we not add to or take away from God’s word {Proverbs 30:6, Deut. 4:2, Revelation 22:18}. I am currently reading Dr. Boice’s ‘Whatever Happened to the Gospel of Grace, Rediscovering the Doctrines that shook the World’; in this book he addresses issues like this. Churches in America have wondered from biblical truth and replaced it with worldliness, man-centered ideas and church growth movements to enlarge church attendance. The Gospel is no longer considered enough to save a sinner, the five solas birthed out of the Reformation are forgotten, replaced with ‘signs and wonders’, motivational speeches, name it claim it promises, compromising with the world, using manipulative methods to coerce dead sinners into a works salvation: concerning the crisis of today’s evangelical church, this quote is from John H. Armstrong’s ‘The coming evangelical crisis’ concerning today’s ‘evangelical church’, ” It is because evangelicals have forgotten their theology”.
    Beth Moore adds to this problem because her theology is an inch deep. No one studies God’s word, they rely on teachers like Beth Moore to feed them, Christians have become lazy and complacent. We need to understand the Holy Spirit is our Teacher, and God’s word is our ‘lesson book’. Trust no man, or woman, to be your sole authority on the word of God. Study His word, go back into Church history and study the Reformation, what they believed, why they stood so strongly solely on His word. The five solas are essential in bringing the church back into a right understanding of biblical truth and effectiveness for the glory of God. As Dr. Boice states on page 32 of his book, “Without these five confessional statements —scripture alone, Christ alone, grace alone, faith alone, and glory to God alone—we do not have a true church, and certainly not one that will survive for very long”. Believing in sola scriptura, or scripture alone, would be the red flag raised in teachers like Beth Moore who goes outside God’s word and claims revelation, visions, etc. Remember 2 Thess. 2:9-10, Satan has power to produce signs and wonders as well.

    Heed the warning of the Lord Himself to His disciples concerning signs of His second coming in Matthew 24:4 -And Jesus answered and said to them, “See to it that no one misleads you.”


  29. Ken,
    OK, I know I am going to take a beating for this but I must have an answer! We were going through an extreme situation in our church and my husband and I had been praying for months. One night, as I was praying, the Lord spoke to me. I know that sounds crazy, but he did. It was a voice that pointed me to scripture. Nothing more nothing less. It wasn’t in my heart, I heard it with my ears. I had never read this passage of scripture before in Isaiah, so it wasn’t my own mind telling me this. This portion of scripture is EXACTLY what ended up happening in our church. Now that was three years ago. The Lord has never spoken to me before that and he hasn’t spoken to me since. Are you saying that God didn’t speak to me? Then I very respectfully ask, who did I hear? Why would Satan point to relevant scripture that spoke to what we were going through? I don’t believe in anything contradicting scripture….Nothing. But, I don’t think the bible says that he doesn’t speak to us. He just never contradicts himself. Right? I mean, catholicism contradicts God’s word, Mormonism contradicts God’s word….But him speaking to me didn’t.

    Please show me where you think I might be in error, because I never want to attribute something to the Lord that isn’t.


  30. At the Passion 2012 conference, Beth Moore, John Piper, Louie Giglio and company taught/led an entire sports arena (45,000 college aged students) in this practice. My son’s friends who attended this conference told of a young girl standing outside the arena crying her eyes out because she had not heard the audible voice of God as they had instructed. Others tried to comfort her but were also distraught at not hearing a thing. This is what Louie Giglio announced during a session that had them upset:

    “How many of you heard the voice of God speak specifically, clearly, directly, and personally, to you? Can you just put a hand up? I’d like you to share it. Can you put a hand up for a minute?

    Just want you to look around; that’s people saying, “God Almighty (pause) the Maker of heaven (pause) the one Who’s sitting on the only throne (pause) that’s not under threat (long pause, audience cheers)—He spoke to me. He spoke to me.”

    “God spoke to me.” (long pause) Don’t let the voice of the darkness, tell you that you are not (pause) worth (pause) that God would not speak to you. (pause) Don’t let him tell you, you don’t matter. (pause) God spoke to you.”

    They felt they must not be “good enough Christians” for God to speak to them. Thank you for warning others of this heresy. These children are diligently opening themselves to a potentially demonic spirit to hear God’s audible voice. Please pray for them and for all the others who raised their hands.


  31. mom – you point out one of the most damaging consequences of ALL experiential religion: most people do not experience the false glory being exploited and feel abandoned and un-done. All this putting faith in the flesh is demonic and draws one’s attention away from the completed work and future promises of our Lord Jesus.

    May God have mercy on those deceived by these “teachers” and may He be gracious to break them of their lies and expose them to His light and glorious Truth.


  32. There is something really creepy and dark in Beth Moore’s eyes, almost as if it’s a mocking spirit, a spirit laughing all the way to the bank.


  33. Hi Manfred,

    This is a good post. Contemplative Spirituality is occurring in many evangelical churches where the inerrancy of the bible is supposed to be adhered to. What is sometimes not recognized in these churches is that these meditation practises are an implicit denial of the sufficiency of the Scriptures.

    Jesus Christ is the supreme and final revelation of God to us and the NT is the God-breathed apostolic witness to him. “in the last days, God has spoken through his Son” (Heb.1:1-2). The last days began with the first coming of Christ and are completed at the second coming of Jesus in power and glory.

    To seek extra biblical revelation through words of knowledge, words of prophecy, internal mystical meditation etc. implicitly rejects God’s complete and final revelation in Jesus. It is saying that we need additional revelation today and denies that all things necessary for man’s salvation, faith and life is either explicitly set forth in the Scriptures or can be deduced from the Scriptures. It denies that those former ways of God’s self reveltaion have now ceased (as the second London Confession and the Westminster Confession put it).

    There is no new revelation. There are no new Scriptures. There is illumination of what is already revealed to us in Holy Scripture and that illumination is by the Holy Spirit and continually points us to Jesus as Saviour and Lord. The God breathed Scripture is the instrument of the Holy Spirit to point us to Jesus who is the centre of the bible.

    I have crossed swords with Ken Silva a couple of times when I was a liberal Christian and practising contemplative Quaker Spirituality. I now see that I was WRONG. Ken is doing a good job highlighting departures from biblical Christianity.

    Thanks for this post.


  34. Hi Manfred,

    I have revised my views on the bible and I am one again a LIBERAL Christian. Not all forms of contemplation strike me as being wrong. Analytical meditation is a form of meditation which seeks to examine all aspects of a topic. As its name suggests, it is concerned with refining one’s reason through the practice of meditation. It has nothing to do with emptying the mind as so many tend to think.

    So what is wrong with sitting in the silence and quietly relecting and musing on many aspects of life from a rational perspective ? What if it tends to make us more compassionate and kind than before? There is no revelation from God comes from rational, contemplative silence. There is no secret knowledge coming from such a source. We are still meant to search and investigate diligently into queries that we have and analytical contemplation is one useful tool, nothing more!

    John Arthur


  35. John Arthur – Nobody with a brain has claims ALL forms or reasons for sitting silently are wrong. We are told to meditate on God’s Word – but not as Rome teaches, which is a technique for mind-numbing. To empty one’s mind is the doctrine of demons. To fill one’s mind with God’s Word is the doctrine of the Lord.

    But if you truly are a “liberal Christian”, you are likely unhinged from Scripture. What do you mean by that description of yourself?


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