This past Sunday morning abortionist George Tiller was gunned down in his church where he served as an usher (that’s another whole issue). In the wake of this event, the pro-life groups have quickly worked on damage control in an attempt to make it known to the world that they disapprove of Tiller’s murder. So much so, I’m afraid, that it seems to be the overarching theme of all their commentaries and interviews on the issue, overshadowing the legacy of death this wicked man left behind. Resulting in (yet again) all the focus of the abortion debate being diverted to everything but the countless babies victimized by this horrific evil.
While the pro-lifers are busy making every effort to show just how virtuous they are by denouncing Tiller’s death, the pro-abortionists, on the other hand, are gearing up to capitalize on this event by:
* Using it as a distraction from the ever-increasing body count of babies murdered in this country at the hands of Tiller and others like him.
* Exploiting Tiller’s death to help enact legislation for the censorship and even criminalization of any views that oppose this barbaric “right.”
* Gaining the sympathy (and thus changing public opinion) of the masses of lemmings (most of which are eligible to vote) who don’t question what they’re told or know how to think for themselves, but instead prefer to be told what to think via such outlets as the evening news.
So I pose a question for those on the pro-life side and a question for those on the pro-death side:
For the pro-life community who are falling all over each other to denounce this killer’s murder, I have the following question: Would you have been–with equal fervor–so anxious to be the loudest voice denouncing the murder of say . . . Heinrich Himmler, Josef Mengele, Adolf Hitler (or any others directly involved in the Nazi death camps) had they been stopped by a gunman?
And for the pro-abortion community who’s currently lamenting Tiller’s murder, I have this question: How would you feel if George Tiller, instead of being killed in church, had instead been murdered in his mother’s womb by an abortionist?
Christ Alone Wyoming 
The fact is, we live in a system and have to work in that system. I would not go gun down a man who killed a member of my family no matter the anger…no matter how just it seems. If the man is in my home and murdering my child, yes, I would attempt to stop him and kill him in defense, but once the crime had occured and he got away with it…I would not gun him down. I believe there is a slim chance we may be able to chip away at the laws in this nation, and it’s possible that God would have mercy and allow us to have Roe v. Wade overturned. Just because a murderer walks the streets, it doesn’t mean I am called to kill this murderer myself. It also does not mean I should applaud someone else who commits the murder. I personally did make a public statement in a news blog decrying the murder of Tiller and yet said I will stand and pray against abortion. I will not stop fighting against abortion as long as I am able. I will not condone violence against the abortionists, however. If we fought with our guns and flesh and blood against those commiting abortion, there would be a great deal of medical professionals, pharmacy workers, mothers, and fathers shot dead. There are many responsible for abortion, and if they were assasinated, I would not celebrate. I would decry the violence. I do not want to shorten these lives, do not want someone else to do so. I have chosen peaceful protest. I will say that it is likely, until war was declared on Hitler, I would have also chosen peaceful protest then and would have been appalled at an act of violence against him. I would wish it would be different, that an enemy such as Osama Bin Laden would be taken alive, and would be judged and then executed after a trial for his crimes. Assasination, unlike a hit in war against an enemy, is not, in my mind, the way we should react to sin. This is just my opinion, I would have to study it biblically to see if I could find support for this. I believe there is a time for all of us to die, I do believe there is justified war, justified killing in self defense etc. The laws of our land are unjust for the unborn right now, and I do not see an advantage of using a bullet to try to right them. In the end, this act will cause so many problems and will not accomplish the total goal…of stopping abortion. Tiller was stopped, but already women who seek this type of abortion will find the few other late term abortionists…they have spoken out in the media. This murder accomplished very little.
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You are correct when you said:
“In the end, this act will cause so many problems and will not accomplish the total goal…of stopping abortion. Tiller was stopped, but already women who seek this type of abortion will find the few other late term abortionists…they have spoken out in the media. This murder accomplished very little.”
When all is said and done, this act very well may have proved to do more harm than good for the pro-life movement. This is probably why those commenting on this situation from the pro-life position are fervently trying to show their disapproval of Tiller’s murder. Unfortunately the damage has already been done and I’m afraid most people’s minds are already made up anyway.
If anything it will send those who are ‘undecided’ into the pro-abortion camp based on sympathy alone. Too bad that sympathy can’t be felt for the little children ripped apart by the homicidal “doctors” making money hand over fist for killing children.
– The Pilgrim
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You yourself have a disclaimer saying you are ” not condoning or excusing what happened to Tiller so please spare me your nasty hate mail.” So you need to ask yourself the question, would you make this disclaimer about Nazi death camp murderers?
I hate to be so harsh with you in response. I just think it’s interesting you are asking this question. Those of us who speak out against this violence need to be reminded to point out the many deaths of babies at the hand of Tiller. That point is what should be remembered.
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The point of my question to pro-lifers (of which I am one) was the emphasis placed on denouncing Tiller’s death in relation to the emphasis on his wicked abominations (and to provoke thought on this matter).
My disclaimer was a small part of the post and only inserted to stave off the inevitable myriads of hate mail including accusations that I was condoning and/or encouraging this act.
You see, when dealing with issues such as this it is often commonplace for our opponents to successfully divert our attention away from the real issue and onto tangents and when we’re done we walk away only to realize that we were distracted and the real issue was never dealt with. I was simply trying to avoid this.
Now in regards to your question, try this one on for size:
I would never kill an abortionist/Nazi death camp operator myself, nor would I encourage someone else do so, but I would never impose my morality on others by denying someone else the ‘right’ to make that ‘choice.’
Sincerely,
– The Pilgrim
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I think we on the prolife side of things really should not be attacking one another. I believe in speaking out against the murderer of Tiller, and in speaking out against the horror that is abortion after abortion after abortion. I know those who believe in abortion as a so called right will often harden and not change. Those who were on the fence will likely be cowards and choose to be “pro-choice.” This does not mean I should stand up and cheer when Tiller is murdered. I do not condone the violence, and will speak the truth as best I know how (and as best I understand). I am not trying to do damage control. I am trying to point out what it is to be prolife. It doesn’t mean I am part of a militia and take matters into my own hands. It does mean I believe in the authority of God to seek vengence, and if He so chooses, that our government would change laws in order that we could exact some justice in this life and protect as many of our babies as possible. My point in speaking out against the murder of Tiller was two fold, I really didn’t like the murder itself. Second, I did want to let the world know that I will not be silent just because someone murdered Tiller. I would still be fighting against abortion. Linking me with Roeder angers me to no end. I do not want to be associated with him and his ways. I am not wrong to speak up about his crime. I also speak out against Tiller’s sins and others (many others) like him. Abortion is wrong, in America we need to keep pushing forward. In the end, we can only do our best. God is in control and we have to act whether or not we “make a change.”
I am more concerned for the many pro-life minded individuals who refuse to take a stand. This is one issue pastors and individuals should speak up about especially in a country where we’re still given the right to do so.
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What? Pilgrim? Are you suggesting we take up arms because I personally am not understanding you at 2:40 in the morning. Really I am not.
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Murder is wrong, and I am against it. Kelsey Smith’s father didn’t go after her killer, he let the authorities take charge. Now, in our system, yes, the laws have been failing us. Just as with slavery, the laws have failed. Was John Brown right though in his actions?
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You know, it’s quite likely you are right about damage control for some of the prolife movement. They might just fear the violence against them…or the goverment taking away their right to free speech. Not sure on that count.
Hey, we agree here on the main issue. Abortion is murder of unborn children.
I must be missing something as at this time of the morning I cannot bear to deal with sarcasm and have never been good at it anyway. I find myself getting frustrated. I almost had my own child drown this weekend, and then Tiller was shot. I live near the area where some of this happened, and it’s BIG news here. I wrote a little piece for the online version of the Kansas City Star and a few the real editors/commentators/journalists from that particular paper have been really dragging pro-life people through the mud hard. I feel a real sense that we are very near to loosing our rights to even freely speak about abortion. Don’t you?
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I encourage you to write your local paper and state what you have loudly…we’re missing the point here. Tiller killed thousands upon thousands of babies. There are others I’ve read already who are making that point. O’Reilly even made that point himself.
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Dear ChristianLady:
Please don’t misunderstand me. I am not trying to attack other pro-lifers. I truly commend all the work of all pro-lifers everywhere. They truly are on the right side of this debate.
I was merely presenting thoughts for discussion on both sides of the debate . . . one for pro-lifers and one for pro-abortionists.
As I said in my earlier comment, I agree that this murder will actually do more harm than good for the pro-life movement.
I’m not quite sure what you meant when you said: “Are you suggesting we take up arms because I personally am not understanding you at 2:40 in the morning.”
“I feel a real sense that we are very near to loosing our rights to even freely speak about abortion. Don’t you?” Absolutely. I even wrote a piece just last week about the coming persecution of Christians.
Oh, and I decided to remove my disclaimer since I can see how it could cause confusion to the reader. If anyone wants to know what it said, it is still quoted in your earlier comment. I’ll just deal with whatever hate mail comes down the pike (it’s not like receiving hate mail is foreign to me).
Sincerely,
– The Pilgrim
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I am sorry, but this is the comment that confused me. I am thinking right now much out of emotion, so I fear I am missing your point and it sounds odd to me…
“I would never kill an abortionist/Nazi death camp operator myself, nor would I encourage someone else do so, but I would never impose my morality on others by denying someone else the ‘right’ to make that ‘choice.’”
I fear you are comparing prolifers decrying the violence against Tiller to abortionists themselves. If you put it in the context of Tiller’s murder it’s, “I wouldn’t kill an abortion doctor myself but would never impose my morality on others by denying someone else the ‘right’ to make that ‘choice’
I know I have to be interpreting that incorrectly, am I making any sense?
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At a point beyond bedtime…I have several homeschooled kiddos and a few under 5 also tomorrow to deal with. I must stop for now. Hope I didn’t confuse the issues here beyond understanding…
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Actually, it was sarcasm. I was employing the same ‘excuses’ used by others in support of abortion. You know, “I’m morally opposed to abortion but I wouldn’t deny someone else the right to have one.” That’s a favorite one used by politicians.
I was simply showing the absurdity of the argument by applying it to the topic at hand.
I’m sorry if I confused you. It’s late and I may be making very little sense myself as the minutes pass. I should be sleeping.
Also, I am sorry to hear about your near-loss this weekend. I too experienced a similar fright. My daughter fell into the deep-end of the swimming pool while I was seated on the opposite side. I couldn’t run to her fast enough!
I have to credit my wife’s forethought to have her wear a life vest. It caused my daughter to surface immediately. Scary few seconds none the less and a real eye opener as to how quickly we can lose someone.
– The Pilgrim
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Thank you for writing this. I am not sure where the correct balance is in making it clear that killing George Tiller was wrong and making sure to emphasize his horrible, bloody legacy is. But I DO think the tragedy of the murder of these babies is being lost in the shuffle.
So far, the most balanced article response to this matter that I have encountered is the one that Doug Phillips of Vision Forum Ministries made. You can find and read it at the following link:
http://www.visionforumministries.org/issues/life/george_tiller_is_dead_for_whom.aspx
Pilgrim, does this article come close to putting the emphasis where you think it should be or are you looking for something more/different? As a passionate pro-lifer I am certainly looking for as much clarity on this issue as possible.
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Are you just wanting pro-lifers to be more clear that they believe abortion to be murder every time, and that it’s been happening time and time again? Are you just hoping that pro-lifers would point out that Tiller killed something like 60,000 preborn children (I heard this somewhere, not sure how accurate)? This must not be forgotten.
Our scare was actually in the shallow pool, we have one of those pools with many things going on…and the kiddie area has a climber/slide apparatus. There’s also water spraying off of it and it obscures the view. Since there were multiple slides, a parent has to walk back and forth and follow the little ones down the slides. Mine had been going down one particular slide so my husband and I were camped out there. When she didn’t come down our side, I was looking up and thought maybe she was amongst the mix of kids waiting to slide. When I didn’t see a shape that looked like my daughter, I suggested my husband go to the other slide and find her. When he got there, he didn’t immediately see her. He waded around behind the slides in a deeper part (still shallow, but too deep for our girl) and found her floating face down…she was limp when he picked her up and blue lipped. She did cough out the water, and breathed. We took her to the ER. She’s okay, but just think if we had continued to chatter for a minute more! God was merciful in that we both were at least aware enough to make sure all was well even if we had no clues it wasn’t.
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How’s about we all be pro-eternal-life and start evangelizing these poor lost souls? This is the one side of this argument that I never seem to hear. These people need Jesus. John Piper and John McArthur are right when they say that we will not be judged for abortion and gay marriage, but they ARE the judgment (Romans 1). God has given us over, and why? Because false teachers are filling up pews with false converts who want their ears tickled. They are causing the rest of the world to further blaspheme God, and making a mockery of God’s institutions. We are being judged, just as the King of Babylon was in the time of Daniel. We take what is sacred to God and form it into a lie. What do we expect will be the outcome? It is time to get back to basics. Pastors; teach sound doctrine, and preach the Bible, AND NOTHING ELSE!!! Lay people; take some of the burden off of your elders. Get out and share the gospel, on every street corner, in every work place and most importantly, in every house. Here’s a novel idea… Start with your own!
Billy.
http://proponentsofgrace.wordpress.com/
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Billy, I couldn’t agree with you more. The church has lost its saltiness. If every Christian began to share the gospel tomorrow and continued to do it every day thereafter until Jesus comes, things would begin to change. That along with earnest prayer for souls to be saved. I have always voted pro-life in every election, support pro-life efforts, and will continue to do that. But, we need to be “out there” sharing our faith with lost people. If Christians are uncomfortable with talking to strangers, they can at least place tracts around whereever they go and hand them to people they meet in stores, etc. I think just about everyone can do that. There are very good tracts at http://www.livingwaters.com and at http://www.customtractsource.com. Custom tract source has some very good ideas on how to use tracts effectively under the heading ‘Why Tracts?’ I have started using tracts recently (just ordered more today!) and find it is a joy to hand them out. Most people take them… no one has refused one yet…in fact, most people say ‘thank you’. This is something even the shyest of us can do.
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Thank You Billy!
We are being judged right now, just nobody sees it yet. I hope it is not too late for the church in America to repent!
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Dear ChristianLady:
That is heart-wrenching. I can’t imagine the horror that you and your husband must have experienced in those few (or many) moments before you knew everything was ok.
I just had another fright yesterday with my son (this is two close calls in one week . . . my heart can’t take it).
Without getting into details, it was a trampoline accident that had me even more concerned than the pool incident.
I am sure there are so many times in our kids’ lives (and ours) in which they and we we came so close to death that but we’ll never ever know just how close.
– The Pilgrim
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