Roman Catholics copying Evangelicals?

A sad trend as of late is that many supposed professing Christians are unifying with and even returning to Rome (like a dog to its vomit) and taking many of the undiscerning with them.

But what I find ironic is that while an exodus out of Biblical Christianity and into Roman Catholicism is taking place (i.e. A great falling away), simultaneously the church of Rome appears to be borrowing from evangelicalism the very pragmatic methodologies that’s killing evangelicalism.

After watching the following video it seems that Rome is trying to model the same seeker-sensitive, feely-touchy, charismatic, man-made methodology that has left so many evangelicals disenfranchised with Christianity and is the impetus behind why so many are running into the arms of the Romish organization.

Here’s the Roman Catholic Life Teen promo video chalk full of images explicitly Romish along with images indistinguishable from modern Churchianity, devotion to a dead woman, and typical Romish heresy.

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The church is in a sad state today. Never mind the mainline denominations that have long-since abandoned biblical faith; we’re talking about the bible-believing church. Here, too often, we see much ado about nothing. There is talk of revival without the reality. The church today measures its success by the numbers on its rolls, the size of its offerings, or the volume of its worship bands—rather than by the holiness of its members.

– Philip Lancaster

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http://easterpeople.wordpress.com/2009/07/23/im-a-charismatic-baptist-reformed-calvinist/

The most excellent study for expanding the soul is the science of Christ and Him crucified and the knowledge of the Godhead in the glorious Trinity.

– Charles Spurgeon

1834 – 1892

Who is Mormonism’s “Angel of Light” and what part did he play in the founding of Mormonism?

And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an ANGEL OF LIGHT.

Holy Bible / 2 Corinthians 11:14

There have also been ministering angels in the Church which were of Satan appearing as an ANGEL OF LIGHT.

Joseph Smith / Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith / Page 214 / 1842

The angel who fell from before the presence of the Eternal God, and became the devil…that being who beguiled our first parents, who transformeth himself nigh unto an ANGEL OF LIGHT.

Book of Mormon / 2 Nephi 9:8-9

We learn from the revealed word that Satan was once an ANGEL OF LIGHT, then known as Lucifer, a Son of the morning.

James E. Talmage / Articles of Faith / Page 56 / 1988

Satan wants us to believe in his false prophets, false healers, and false miracle workers. They may appear to be so real to us that the only way to know is to ask God for the gift of discernment. The devil himself can appear as an ANGEL OF LIGHT.

Gospel Principles / Page 149 / 1997 Edition

ANGEL OF LIGHT.

See Devil.

Bruce McConkie / Mormon Doctrine / Page 35 / 1966 Edition

And exactly what part did this “Angel of Light” play in the founding of Mormonism?

In September, 1823, and at later times, Joseph Smith received visitations from Moroni, an ANGEL OF LIGHT, who revealed the resting place of the ancient record from which The Book of Mormon was afterward translated.

Doctrine and Covenants / Explanatory Introduction / Page 1

It all makes sense now, doesn’t it?


A Roman Catholic with univeralist leanings vs. an Atheist on the topic of Christmas.

I found this short and interesting video debate between a Roman Catholic (who includes Evangelicals, Catholics, and Mormons under the umbrella of “Christian”) and an Atheist on the subject of Christmas.

The Roman Catholic is a Foxnews anchor, and the Atheist is from the Freedom From Religion Foundation. Yes, the same Freedom From Religion Foundation that honors the bloodthirsty racist Margaret Sanger as a great “Free Thinker.”

All in all, a very entertaining video.


Rick Warren’s Radicalis Conference

I want to give all of the DefCon contributors and readers enough time to get tickets for Saddleback’s latest conference, Radicalis (i.e “Radical Is” which you will find with a backward “R” on their website).  Here, in case reading your Bible, sound exposition, prayer, and a study of church history were not enough, you can now learn from the movers and shakers in Christdom about absolute surrender, sacrificial lifestyle and authentic Christianity.  All as Rick Warren and his team extend an invidation to radicals only to attend this conference that is billed as,

a unique hands-on, comprehensive experience that will enhance each member of your team’s role in your church and build and inspire them to serve God in your community and the world. Rick Warren, the Saddleback Team and leading national pastors will challenge, develop, and expand your vision to be a moving force for God in today’s world.

They’ll help you understand the paradigm, learn the process and build relationships for expanding your ministry. They’ll enlarge your understanding of what “church” and “ministry” mean to enable you to affect positive, purposeful change for God. Imagine what would happen in your community, in your church and in our world if your church team collectively shared an experience guided by the Spirit of God in which we saw His calling and His will for your ministry.

And who will be the speakers that will teach you about “church” and “ministry”?  Well, well, I’m sure you are sitting at the edge of your seat in rapt anticipation.  Without further delay, some key speakers from the entire speaker list include:

  • Rick Warren
  • Andy Stanley
  • Mark Driscoll
  • Perry Noble
  • Dino Rizzo
  • Kerry Shook

So there you have it.   Any takers?  For a few insights, you can check out what Ken Silva has to say on his blog.

Oral Roberts Dies

In no way rejoicing, but for those who care to know, Oral Roberts today has joined the growing list of Word Faith teachers who have died.  Where once again, a man who claimed he had the power to heal others could not, like his predecessors, heal himself.  The cause of Mr. Robert’s death was complications of pneumonia according to Melany Ethridge, his spokeswoman.  He was 91 years old.

In poking around the Web, I came across a website of one who was closely tied to the Oral Roberts ministry and was himself a Word Faith preacher and also one of Oral Robert’s bodyguards.  Here, I felt it would be profitable to share his reflections since he walked where many of us have not walked regarding the Word Faith movement.  And to God be the glory, by His grace, this brother was delivered from the Word Faith movement and is now a Southern Baptist preacher.

Speaking to Oral Roberts death on his blog, he writes:

I do not write this gladly or mockingly. I worked for Oral Roberts for two years. I was one of his bodyguards. I delivered his newspaper every morning. I watched over his family as they slept. I was a huge fan and admirer.

But Oral Roberts died sick today. Just like all of the famous Faith Healers, he has died sick. Kenneth Hagin died of heart disease although he claimed to enjoy Divine Health. He was on heart meds for years.

EW Kenyon, the founder of the Word of Faith Religion and author of the confession brings possesion [sp] message, died from a malignant tumor.

The Word of Faith Message is a false one. It does not work, even for the most famous preachers.

Most assuredly their message is a false one regardless of what the deceivers like Jesse Duplantis continue to spout forth.  The only option for those trapped in this movement and in bondage to its damning legalism is that you leave this movement even as Junker Jorge did.  And that you come to understand and believe the true gospel where Jesus came not to deliver us from sickness, pain and suffering nor to give us wealth and richers, but the one where he came to set us free from sin and give unto us the gift of eternal life.

A Public Rebuke to the Mahnattan Declaration Signers

Timothy George, Co-Author of Manhattan Declaration

From: Ralph Ovadal, Pastor of Pilgrims Covenant Church, Monroe, Wisconsin.

The Manhattan Declaration is an ungodly manifesto, contemptuous of the blood and righteousness of the Lord Jesus Christ. It is an ecumenical treatise, complete with a Romish gospel and shot through and through with popish error. Those evangelicals who have authored this document and who have led the way in signing it show themselves to be in rebellion to God. It is, in their case, a brazen manifesto of treason against the Lord Jesus Christ. And they are not friends but rather are enemies of Christian liberty in that they disobey and provoke the Author of liberty with their spiritual fornication, even wresting His word and corrupting His blood-bought church. It is the biblical duty of all faithful Christian pastors to stand against the evangelical authors of the Manhattan Declaration and all evangelicals who sign it or promote it in any way. Such betrayers of Christ and His church must be separated from and called to account by all faithful Christian ministers and people.

For a message speaking to this much needed, very strong public rebuke to the evangelical signers of The Manhattan Declaration, please listen here

Wal-Mart now sells cult literature.

A few days ago I entered the book section of a local Wal-Mart and was shocked to see a large section of books on Mormonism. And no, this Wal-Mart was not in Utah.

I then checked the internet and discovered they even sell Mormonism’s plagiarized piece of fiction known as the Book of Mormon online. (To understand more about the Book of Mormon check out this excellent documentary.)

I never thought I’d see the day when a major retailer would carry cult literature. I suppose this isn’t much of stretch for Wal-Mart, though. They’ve been selling Rick Warren, Joel Osteen, and Joyce Meyer for years.

I wonder if the Jehovah’s Witnesses will demand their place on Wal-Mart’s bookshelves next.

Manhattan Declaration & New Age/New Spirituality

From: Lighthouse Trails Research 
December 4th, 2009

We are seeking to build a movement – hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions, of Catholic, Evangelical, and Eastern Orthodox Christians who will stand together.–Manhattan Declaration

On November 20th, a document called the Manhattan Declaration was released at an event at the National Cathedral in Washington, DC. The Declaration has received wide media coverage, and as of this writing about ¼ million people have signed the document, with a current average of about 10 people a minute adding their names (around 14,400 a day).

Colson and Papa Pope

One of the four drafters of the Declaration is Chuck Colson who also co-authored a document in the 90s called Evangelicals and Catholics Together. The ECT is similar in nature in that it identifies both Catholicism and Evangelicalism as part of the Christian church and asks members of both groups to unite in areas that they have in common. With this new document, the emphasis is on morality: gay versus traditional marriage, abortion, stem cell research, assisted suicide,  etc.

Read the rest of the article here.

The Darkness of Rome’s Priesthood Exposed Again

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Billions in the world today are grievously deceived by the Roman Catholic religion; those both within her walls and those without.  Deceived in large part by her outward appearance as she arrays herself in purple and scarlet and decks herself with gold, precious stones and pearls.  All in a vain attempt to present herself as holier-than-thou as her clergy dons their priestly collars, robes and outward accoutrements so as to appear elevated above the common man and immune from sin.  

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.   Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup.  Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men’s bones, and of all uncleanness.  Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity. (Mat 23:25-28) 

But just as was true with the Pharisees, so it is true with the Roman priesthood.  They do indeed appear to be beautiful outwardly, but inwardly they are full of hypocrisy and iniquity, just as anyone is who has religion and not Jesus Christ.  A truth made all too clear only a few years ago when the religious facade of the Roman priesthood was briefly lifted which gave the world a glimpse into her blackened soul.  For it was from this brief view that the world became aware of many of her priests either engaging in the most vile acts of sexual molestation of youth, or those who covered the dark deeds up. 

(As an aside, this should give us a little insight into the motos operandi of Rome’s hierarchy where preservation of her reputation is paramount even when it involves innocent little children.  Something to consider when you are bombarded by Catholic apologists and historical revisionists who classify her dark days of history including Papal wickedness, the Crusades, Inquisitions and brutal conquest of the Americas – to name a few, as nothing more than mere specks on her otherwise spotless character).

Well, tragically we are witnessing more of the same once again where a damning report has been released that speaks to child abuse in the Irish archdiocese of Dublin.  Something which has apparently been going on for decades where the Catholic hierarchy has done all they could to cover up the abuse.  Reading from a BBC article found here, authorities,

 

…found that the [Roman Catholic] Church placed its own reputation above the protection of children in its care.  It also said that state authorities facilitated the cover-up by allowing the Church to operate outside the law.

The same article later goes on to state that,

Instead of reporting the allegations to civic authorities, those accused of horrific crimes were systematically shuffled from parish to parish where they could prey on new, unsuspecting victims.  

The report stated: “The Dublin archdiocese’s pre-occupations in dealing with cases of child sexual abuse, at least until the mid 1990s, were the maintenance of secrecy, the avoidance of scandal, the protection of the reputation of the Church, and the preservation of its assets.”

It also said that the archdiocese “did its best to avoid any application of the law of the state”.

Another article in the NY Times reports that,

There was a similarly shocking investigation into decades of unchecked child abuse in Irish schools, workhouses and orphanages run nationwide by 19 Catholic orders of nuns, priests and brothers.

That report in May sought to document the scale of abuse as well as the reasons why church and state authorities didn’t stop it, whereas Thursday’s 720-page report focused on why church leaders in the Dublin Archdiocese — home to a quarter of Ireland’s 4 million Catholics — did not tell police about a single abuse complaint against a priest until 1995.

By then, the investigators found, successive archbishops and their senior deputies — among them qualified lawyers — already had compiled confidential files on more than 100 parish priests who had sexually abused children since 1940. Those files had remained locked in the Dublin archbishop’s private vault.

Absolutely shocking and how tragic indeed.  To think of how deep the sin must be to commit such reprehensible acts all the while living a duplicitous life of feigned piety and holiness.  So it goes and so it will go as long as Rome rejects the gospel of Jesus Christ and continues to hold to her damnable man-made religion of works.

One hope I have from this story is that there will be many Roman Catholics (including the brutalized victims) who will come, by God’s grace, to have their eyes opened to the reality behind the mask that Rome wears.  Because religion never can and religion never will change a man’s or a woman’s heart no matter how pious or outwardly righteous they might appear.  This being truth for the Catholic just as much as it is for the Protestant, Baptist and Evangelical. 

My second hope is that evangelical leaders and their churches alike will repent of their alliances and fellowship with Rome and will stand apart from her as all of God’s faithful have done throughout the centuries; millions to the point of their brutal deaths.  A call especially relevant for those who have recently signed The Manhattan Declaration.  And a call especially relevant for those who desire not to partake of Rome’s sins nor receive of her plagues. 

And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.  Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.  How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.  Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her. (Rev 18:4-8)

 

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Catholics are totally dependent upon priests for their salvation. It is the priest who is said to cause regeneration and justification in baptism (CCC 1992, 1213); absolve mortal sins in the confessional; dispense the body and blood of Jesus in the Eucharist; impart the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Confirmation; and offer the sacrifice of the Mass for souls suffering in purgatory. It is no wonder why Catholics trust their religion and their priests as mediators to usher them into Heaven.

– Mike Gendron

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J. D. WatsonRoman Catholicism is the most evil perversion of Christianity Satan could devise. It is pagan, wicked, and deceptive. It is a works-oriented system that perverts the works of Christ in many blasphemous ways (the papacy being one) and was the reason the Protestant Reformation was necessary. How sad it is that many “evangelicals” today are trying to undo it.

– J.D. Watson

WOTM on Jehovah’s Witnesses.

Way of the Master put together a great video on Jehovah’s Witnesses, in spite of the fact that they’ve resorted to including Ravi Zacharias as an “apologist.” I noticed that on the other WOTM video on Mormonism (found here), Ravi was not included. Could it be because he’s sympathetic to LDS? For more on Ravi’s descent into heresy, click here.

Aside from that, enjoy the videos.

Part 1:

Part 2:

Piper – The Slope to Heresy?!

Galatians 1:6-9, “I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.”

It is a tragedy when those who claim the name of Christ are being duped by the myriads of false teachers who have no desire for truth. An even greater tragedy occurs when false professors and/or their false teachings begin to be endorsed by well-respected ministers of the gospel. However, the greatest tragedy is when well-respected ministers of the gospel not only endorse false teaching and heresy but then allow it to be preached as truth in the midst of those sheep whom they have been supposedly called upon to protect. The man in question is none other than John Piper, pastor of Bethlehem Baptist Church in Minnesota.
john-piper

Before we continue, I want to make it very clear that this is not a private issue, but one that is well out in the open. The false teaching and endorsing of such teachings and heresies is well-documented. This is an open matter and is being addressed accordingly based on the commands we find in Scripture.

I am under no delusions that this will NOT be a popular post with some. However, Defending Contending believes we can no longer be honoring to Christ and His Word if we merely overlook what is happening within the ranks of evangelicalism simply because of who the pastor might or might not be, or how popular he appears to be.

With that in mind, let’s continue by looking briefly at two heresies taking over at an alarming rate. Both of these doctrines are pushing the ranks of the uninformed back towards the open, welcoming arms of Rome again. Sadly, these doctrines are even being embraced or unknowingly being endorsed by even very conservative Baptist churches.

    First – Federal Vision in a nutshell believes that when a person unites with the visible local church that the individual becomes one with Christ. Federalists also teach that when an unbeliever partakes of communion (the Lord’s Table) that they are actually feeding upon Christ. Further, they teach that being baptized is the means whereby a person becomes one with Christ. For further information, I would highly recommend this article at The Banner of Truth Trust. FV has been rejected outright by many mainline Reformed denominations.
    Second – The New Perspective on Paul (or NPP) believes that Judaism was actually a religion of grace. They teach that salvation is possible by the keeping of the law. They also teach that the righteousness of God is actually referring to His faithfulness and that it has nothing to do with the truth that the righteousness of Christ is imputed to the new believer. N.T. Wright is abundantly clear about what he means and what he stands for when he declares that justification is about the mark of what a person already is, and is not about the means whereby one is justified with God. A quote from N.T. Wright, “In theology, therefore, justification is not the means whereby it becomes possible to declare someone in the right. It is simply that declaration itself. It is not how someone becomes a Christian, but simply the declaration that someone is a Christian. It is not the exercise of mercy, but the just declaration concerning one who has already received mercy. This is a crucial distinction, without which it is impossible to understand the biblical material.” For further reading go to this article at Theopedia

Let’s makes this very clear! Federal Vision and the New Perspective on Paul are both heresies that lead back to Rome! Those who teach these are leading people deliberately astray and must be classified as heretics at worst and in need of repentance at best for their false teachings. Both of these teachings are nothing more than a rehash of Roman Catholic doctrine which has damned millions to hell.

Now that the reader understands a little more of the heresies defined above, we move back to John Piper’s progressive downhill slide which looks like this –

1) Mixing oxymorons for many years such as “Christian hedonism”
2) Openly endorsing Mark Driscoll (the vulgar, sewer-mouthed talker) with no known retractions
3) Blasphemously claiming the Lord of Glory was damned upon the cross
4) Openly endorsing the Federal Vision heresy as proclaimed by men like Douglas Wilson, and clearly indicating that Douglas Wilson is NOT preaching another or false gospel
5) Openly endorsing the New Perspective on Paul heresy as proclaimed by men like N.T. Wright, and clearly stating that N.T. Wright is also NOT preaching another or false gospel, but that the NPP is merely a “confusing gospel!

** Edit Note ** Points 4 & 5 have numerous proofs, but here is a video clip from The Resurgence.

“No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds.” (2 Cor. 11:14-15)

John Piper is leading many astray by his open endorsements of these men as mentioned above. His own theology comes into question when he publishes questionable material on his site about the doctrine of justification which you can still find on his site at Desiring God – I am firmly convinced that John Piper has slid this view under the noses of evangelicals who have missed the error of a justification that is NOT by faith alone. For more information on this issue and the problems with a recent work entitled Future Grace, you can visit Trinity Foundation.

While we at DefCon have respected John Piper as a man of God in the past, we believe we can no longer endorse any teachings by Piper. Our prayer is that God will bring Piper to a point where he will see the error of his teaching before it is too late and repent. We pray that God will also open the eyes of all those who blindly follow a man who is openly endorsing heresies as being merely a “confusing” gospel. “Confusing” gospels are no true gospels of the Lord Jesus Christ. They damn the souls of men to a Christ-less eternity in hell forever.

The Scriptures exhort us to openly exhort and rebuke those who cause divisions within the faith once delivered to the saints. John Piper is and continues to do this by his strange brand of heterodoxy which has sucked in the unlearned and learned alike. May we ever be alert to the apostasy that the apostle Paul warned will appear in the latter days. It will come from within the midst of what seems to be truth, but it will be mixed with poison. Pastors and their people will swallow it, and before they realize it is too late will be overcome.

Grieving over further apostasy,

The Desert Pastor

The more Rome changes, the more it stays the same.

You can tell a man by the friends he keeps and likewise you can tell a church by the associations it keeps. So this Reformation Day, let us take a stroll through the halls of Roman Catholicism’s past and present as a simple reminder why true Biblical Christianity will never be at peace with the false religious system and counterfeit Christian organization of Rome.

torture_inquisition

inquisition

catholic_iquisition_torture

burned_at_the_stake

Pope and false religion

priests-salute

NaziPriestsSaluteHitler

Hitler-with-Muller

hitler_cardinal4

Pope and Castro

Obama Vatican

Pope and TBN

Pope and Dali Lama

Pope and Islam

Pope and Yassir Arafat

Catholicism and Islam

Pope and Arafat Greet

Arafat and Pope

Paul John Paul II Kissing the Koran

Pope and Chavez

VATICAN SAUDI KING

INterfaith

Pope Jewish

Pope Mosque

Interfaith Pope

Ecumenical Pope

Pope UN

The Pope’s Plans on Organizing Political, Economic, and Religious Activities Worldwide

From Richard Bennett at Berean Beacon.

Dear Friend, The Pope’s latest encyclical can read like an ideological bombshell. However, when we study papal history with its obsession forRatUN global power, it is not so shocking. The Papacy has an agenda for the United Nations, economic institutions, and international finance organizations. The Pope has called for the crafting of a new governmental body above these groups and intends that the new body be equipped with enforcement power on a startling scale. Much more sobering is the detailed body of Roman Catholic social doctrine on which the encyclical is built and which the Papacy is in the process of instituting secularly. These documents need to be analyzed and rejected before nations and peoples unwittingly concede both temporal and religious control to the Vatican. We have outlined the heart of the major tactics found in the body of Roman Catholic social doctrine, which includes the Pope’s latest encyclical. Our article is called, The Pope’s Plans on Organizing Political, Economic, and Religious Activities Worldwide. If you wish to get the article as a Microsoft Word document, just request it and it will be sent to you. We consider this to be one of the more important appraisals we have done.

The immaculate deception.

Immaculate Deception

The following is an article by James Swan refuting an attempted defense of Roman Catholicism’s great heresy: The Immaculate Conception. I found the timing of this to be highly apropos in light of a continued discussion that is taking place on this very subject on the comment thread from this post.

How To Prove The Immaculate Conception Without Biblical Proof

10/04/2009 – James Swan

The constant dilemma of the Roman Catholic apologist is to insert doctrines into the Bible that aren’t there to begin with. Their argumentation of meandering logic seeks to demonstrate: a) The Bible doesn’t contradict the doctrine being inserted; b)There are indirect Bible passages that if interpreted by first granting the validity of the extra-biblical doctrine, actually support the extra biblical doctrine. Catholic apologist John Martignoni’s most recent newsletter is a perfect example. He presents “Challenge/Response/Strategy” in defending Mary’s immaculate conception. This argumentation is for his upcoming book on basic Roman Catholic apologetics.

In Martignoni’s argumentation, the immaculate conception must first be brought to the biblical text. That is, by a plain reading of the Bible, one would not read from Genesis to Revelation and conclude Mary was born sinless and remained free of sin her entire life. Martignoni’s apologetic then is to prove the immaculate conception is not disproved by anything the Bible states, and that certain texts can be utilized as indirect proofs. I outlined Martignoni’s hypothetical challenges and his responses in the order he presented them. My counter responses are in red.

Argument 1: The Bible doesn’t use the words immaculate conception. Therefore it is an unbiblical concept.

Martignoni’s Response: The words Trinity and Incarnation are not found in the Bible either.

Swan’s Counter: I know of no serious Protestant apologist that actually uses such an argument. The question is not whether the phrase is found in the Bible, but are there specific direct passages that substantiate such a concept? To substantiate such a concept as a clear teaching of scripture one needs direct passages, not a few vague inference passages.

Argument 2: Trinity and Incarnation are concepts supported by the Bible, the immaculate conception has no such support.

Martignoni’s response: There is no passage in Scripture which directly states that Mary was not conceived without original sin, or that she was not immaculately conceived.

Swan’s counter: Aside from the fact this response doesn’t follow from the argument, this type of argument can [be] applied to many individuals within the Bible. The Bible doesn’t say Priscilla was conceived without original sin, or that she was not immaculately conceived, yet we don’t assume she was. A lack of evidence does not bolster or further an argument.

Argument 3: Romans 3:9-12 and 3:22-23 says all are under the power of sin and that all have sinned, therefore Mary sinned.

Martignoni’s response (four points):
A. Such an argument does not address Mary being immaculately conceived, it addresses whether or not she was sinless her entire life, which is a different question.

Swan’s Counter: Under the heading of “The Immaculate Conception,” the Catechism of the Catholic Church states, “By the grace of God Mary remained free of every personal sin her whole life long” (CCC 493), so it is not a different question.

B. There is no passage in Scripture which directly states that Mary was not conceived without original sin, or that she was not immaculately conceived.

Swan’s Counter: Luke 1:35 positively says Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit. There is no such verse about Mary’s conception. There is no verse that states Mary must be sinless in order to bear the Son of God. Martignoni offers no similar positive evidence that would separate her from the rest of humanity described in Romans 3.

C. Some Protestants believe things not found in the Bible. Catholics likewise should be allowed to believe things not directly stated in the Bible. Example: The Bible nowhere says contraception is okay, yet most protestants believe it is.

Swan’s Counter: Martignoni’s argument would not work against Protestants who deny both the immaculate conception and contraception. To prove some Protestants may believe something not found in the Bible does nothing more than prove an inconsistency. To prove such offers no positive support for an extra-biblical belief in the immaculate conception.

D. Some Scripture passages indirectly support the Immaculate Conception, like Genesis 3:14-15. Mary is the woman described. Enmity exists between Satan and the woman. Martignoni says, “If you have sin in you, can you say that there is enmity between you and Satan?” Only a sinless being can be at enmity with Satan. Therefore Mary was not conceived in sin, and did not commit personal sin.

Swan’s counter: This is Martignoni’s only attempt to present positive argumentation. He candidly admits his Biblical proof is indirect. The argument has an unproven assumption: only a sinless person can be an enemy of Satan, at war with Satan. But, there has always been enmity between believers and Satan. One does not have to be sinless to be at war with Satan. Why would Paul exhort the Ephesians to put on the full armor of God “so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes“? Wouldn’t he first clarify that in order to put on the armor, one must be entirely sinless? Similarly, why would Peter exhort Christians to resist the Devil (1 Peter 5:8), or James to resist the devil (James 4:7)? Here we have direct proof that all Christians are enemies of Satan, at war with Satan. John warns us that “if we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves.” Christians are sinners, and they are at war with Satan. Nothing could be clearer.

Martignoni states that he was limited with the amount of time he had to put into this argumentation. Then again, he states this argumentation is for a book (as if the world needs yet another book repeating arguments already put forth by other writers). If he’s going to continue with a similar line of reasoning, perhaps he should back up a bit and explain his proofs are not proofs, but inferences. He claims to be presenting “biblical, historical, and logical perspectives” as to the immaculate conception. His reasoning though amounts to inferences and leaps of logic read into the text.

HT: Isaiah

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Rome never changes. Rome will never admit that she has made mistakes. She burned our English Reformers 300 years ago. She tried hard to stamp out by violence the Protestantism which she could not prevent spreading by arguments. If Rome had only the power, I am not sure that she would not attempt to play the whole game over again.

– J.C. Ryle

1816 – 1900